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[Chris Poynter]

Hi everyone,

Greetings from Victoria, BC, Canada. On top of my job as an elementary school music teacher, I run a small mobile DJ business; I do 50-60 gigs a year, mostly weddings. You can check me out at chrispoynter.ca.

I am looking to buy a new hazer, and I would love some recommendations! I've been scouring the internet (and this forum) all day today, but I can't come to any solid conclusions about what I should buy. I've got a budget of up to $1500 CAD, but that would be the absolute top end.

I currently use the Chauvet Hurricane 1000 fog machine with Orion medium density water-based fog fluid (Long & McQuade's house brand), and diffuse it through a fan because I don't like the "billowing clouds of smoke" look. It works almost-half-decently to give me the atmosphere I'm going for - here's a little video I just made so you can see my lighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ8hpBCPXKY

However... there are a few issues as well:

1. I get really bad sinus infections at this time of year, and my fog machine makes them considerably worse. I do 1-2 gigs every weekend, and I don't use a ton of fog; just enough to make the lights pop. I'm not sure if it's because of the glycol drying my nasal passages out, or if it's because the Orion fog fluid has a slightly different composition that doesn't quite jive with my Chauvet machine... or if my sinuses are just getting worse with age... but the fog exacerbates my sinuses (and often my nose and throat) enough that I hate using it now. I should note that I've never had this problem with cheapo fog machines in the past. Also, I've only had it for a few months, so I don't think it's a cleanliness problem.

2. The fog dissipates too quickly. Obviously different venues produce different results, but the fog honestly doesn't hang that well.

3. Even though I'm blowing it through a fan, it's not as discreet as I'd like it to be.

So...

I'm looking for something in my $1500 CAD price range (or less) with these requirements:

- Discreetly disperse a nice even haze. No clouds of smoke!
- The haze should have an excellent hang time (should I get an oil hazer?)
- I don't want it to be too loud (should I not get an oil hazer? lol)
- I want something that will (hopefully) not dry out / irritate my sinuses, nose and throat
- It should be smoke alarm friendly! (obviously this depends on how I use it, but I've had excellent results with my Chauvet / Orion combination, and did not have good results with super cheap no-name-brand fog machines in the past)

Antari Z-350? Antari HZ-350? Chauvet 4D? Radiance? Jem Compact Hazer Pro? (that price might be pushing it)

Thanks so much for your help!

Christopher

[Mark Cadwallader]

Oil-based hazer fluids have two downsides, IMO:

First, the fluid can leave a reside on about everthing (ick), and you will need to do more maintenance on your lights.
 
Second, the fluid can cause respiratory issues over time. Industry standards seem to strongly recommend the use of water-based haze fluid for musical theater singer/dancer/actor types, as the water-based fluid does not have adverse health risks with prolonged exposures.

[Len Zenith Jr]

    While oil based haze has a longer hang time than the others and is much more discreet and looks the most even, I wouldn't recommend it. The oil will mix with dust in the air and clog all your fan intakes on your lights and amps and will need monthly cleaning. It is not unusual for oil to literally drip out of fixtures that are within 10 feet of the machine. If you are in the same venue every week then the dust bunnies everywhere will become a huge maintenance issue.

    The Radiance would be my choice. It uses glycerin instead of glycol so it isn't hygroscopic. It will be much easier on your sinuses and peoples eyes and throats. The fluid can be cut with demineralized water to thin the haze for smaller venues. Finally, the Radiance was designed with easy maintenance in mind. Clogged heat exchangers can be cleaned in less than 10 minutes and even replacement fluid pumps are less then $40 making it a very easy machine to keep operating forever. The downside is the fluid costs, the factory stuff is ~$100/gallon, half that for Froggies fluid. Based on your useage, I'd say you would need a gallon every other month depending on how big the venue is.

[Chris Poynter]

    While oil based haze has a longer hang time than the others and is much more discreet and looks the most even, I wouldn't recommend it. The oil will mix with dust in the air and clog all your fan intakes on your lights and amps and will need monthly cleaning. It is not unusual for oil to literally drip out of fixtures that are within 10 feet of the machine. If you are in the same venue every week then the dust bunnies everywhere will become a huge maintenance issue.

    The Radiance would be my choice. It uses glycerin instead of glycol so it isn't hygroscopic. It will be much easier on your sinuses and peoples eyes and throats. The fluid can be cut with demineralized water to thin the haze for smaller venues. Finally, the Radiance was designed with easy maintenance in mind. Clogged heat exchangers can be cleaned in less than 10 minutes and even replacement fluid pumps are less then $40 making it a very easy machine to keep operating forever. The downside is the fluid costs, the factory stuff is ~$100/gallon, half that for Froggies fluid. Based on your useage, I'd say you would need a gallon every other month depending on how big the venue is.

Thanks for the info... that's super useful! And thank-you, Mark, as well.

How loud is the Radiance?

And in (for example) a medium sized hotel ballroom would I just run it continuously? Or a few minutes on/off?

How is it with smoke detectors compared to a fog machine?

And are there any other ones of the same calibre I should look into?

[Len Zenith Jr]

Thanks for the info... that's super useful! And thank-you, Mark, as well.

How loud is the Radiance?

And in (for example) a medium sized hotel ballroom would I just run it continuously? Or a few minutes on/off?

How is it with smoke detectors compared to a fog machine?

And are there any other ones of the same calibre I should look into?

The Radiance is no where near as loud as a fog machine. If you had music playing you wouldn't notice it, even general crowd conversation should mask it. It isn't completely silent so in a quiet theater it might be a problem but that's about it.

Normally the unit is left on for the duration you want to haze the room. For duty cycle you would either select an output on the back of the unit and leave it be or use dmx to remote control that. Every room is different as the a/c, heat, or air handlers are the biggest variable when it comes to the hang time. I set mine via dmx at some arbitrary number, wait a bit, then adjust up or down depending on the thickness of the haze I want. It isn't rocket science. You'll quickly find an output setting that maintains a constant haze and then you can ignore the unit for the rest of the night. DMX saves you the effort of walking up to the unit and adjusting in the dark. For a fine haze I also dilute my fluid about 5 to 1 with water. That's 5 parts water, 1 part fluid. Without diluting, smaller venues can become over hazed even on the lowest setting of the Radiance.

All fog/haze machines put particulate matter into the air so any fire detection sensors that measure particulates will be a problem if the haze gets too thick.

[Nathan Riddle]

Oil-based hazer fluids have two downsides, IMO:

First, the fluid can leave a reside on about everthing (ick), and you will need to do more maintenance on your lights.
 
Second, the fluid can cause respiratory issues over time. Industry standards seem to strongly recommend the use of water-based haze fluid for musical theater singer/dancer/actor types, as the water-based fluid does not have adverse health risks with prolonged exposures.

Just keep the lights 10ft or so away, then no buildup aside from normal dust buildup.

While that may be true, I have a vocalist with celiac disease and a few other allergies (she's majorly allergic to most everything) and the radiance and any other water based hazers affect her to the point of coughing. Yes, I've told her and others it is purely psychological...but she says the oil based hazers we also have and use (for cameras mainly) don't affect her.

Something to consider.

Disclaimer: major fan of oil based hazers.

[Chris Poynter]

Just keep the lights 10ft or so away, then no buildup aside from normal dust buildup.

While that may be true, I have a vocalist with celiac disease and a few other allergies (she's majorly allergic to most everything) and the radiance and any other water based hazers affect her to the point of coughing. Yes, I've told her and others it is purely psychological...but she says the oil based hazers we also have and use (for cameras mainly) don't affect her.

Something to consider.

Disclaimer: major fan of oil based hazers.

Thanks for the insight! My business is mobile DJing, so indeed, I guess I don't really need to worry about oil buildup like I would in a permanent install.

So if I have my lights 8-12 feet up in the air on my T-Bar stand (which I usually have behind my DJ table) and the haze machine on the floor beside my DJ table, my moving heads should be fine in the long run?

What about my powered speakers? My laptop and other gear on the table?

Is there an oil-based hazer under $1500 that you'd say is the best bet?

In terms of the coughing, yeah, I can see that. Towards the end of a gig I start to feel super dried out in my throat, nose, and sinuses. And since sinus infections are caused by sinuses not draining properly, drying them out makes them a lot worse - hence why I have so many sinus issues at this time of year. I've started using a saline nose spray in the car, right after my gigs, lol. Fog machines didn't used to affect me like this (I've been doing the mobile thing for 15 years now) but hey... that's life.

Mark - Where did you get the info on the oil-based machines causing respiratory issues over time? I have never heard of that before, nor can I find any info online.

Len - Glycerin actually is hygroscopic... and that makes me wonder... what's the difference between a fog or haze machine that uses glycerin vs. one that uses glycol? Is there benefits to one over the other?

Has anyone out there tried the Jem Compact Hazer Pro? It looks pretty cool!

[Len Zenith Jr]

Disclaimer: major fan of oil based hazers.

Me too, nothing beats the look of oil. I operate in a smallish permanent install and the monthly cleaning was horrible. The oil would literally drip out of the lights and the screens on the amps would clog in a couple weeks, the heat sinks too would become clogged up over a couple months as the dust is sticky rather than just being blown through the amp/fixture. Sticky dust balls all over the truss and oily optics drove me nuts. That's all behind me now, radiance all the way.

Sure glycerin is a little bit hygroscopic but nowhere near glycol. You can instantly tell the difference in your throat and eyes between the two. Glycerin doesn't bother nearly as many people. 

[Chris Poynter]

Me too, nothing beats the look of oil. I operate in a smallish permanent install and the monthly cleaning was horrible. The oil would literally drip out of the lights and the screens on the amps would clog in a couple weeks, the heat sinks too would become clogged up over a couple months as the dust is sticky rather than just being blown through the amp/fixture. Sticky dust balls all over the truss and oily optics drove me nuts. That's all behind me now, radiance all the way.

Sure glycerin is a little bit hygroscopic but nowhere near glycol. You can instantly tell the difference in your throat and eyes between the two. Glycerin doesn't bother nearly as many people.

Thanks, Len, good to know!

[Len Zenith Jr]

I should add that I live in Canada where we have a long heating season with forced air furnaces. They tend to throw the dust around so my experiences with dust bunnies may be a bit worse than in warmer climates.

[ProSoundWeb Community]