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Author Topic: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?  (Read 7290 times)

Billy Snody

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2017, 08:33:13 pm »

What is the DSP actually doing? I thought it seemed earlier in this thread that is was basically being used as a distribution amp. That's a pretty expensive DA. If you have someone who can come in and set up the DSP and optimize your system there may be a reason to spend money on a new DSP, but to use it as a DA, not so much.

Mac
As I understand the hook up and software routings, it was basically being used as a line level splitter, ( is that what you mean by DA?) It did have four feedback notches that I could see but no x-over, time delay or EQ settings that I could tell. But now that it seems to be freezing up, I am going to check the firmware version and possibly update it to see if it will cure it. This being the case, when we get our FOH amp back, I am considering connecting it to our EQ (DBX 231) and running it in stereo. Then setting our monitor amp for parallel input and feeding our Gigrac from input two. I was just exploring some ideas about replacing the unit and if so with what. As I am new to anything other than typical consumer audio stuff, I am on a steep learning curve and trying to become informed before dropping a bundle of money on something we don't need. I think we can get away without it at least for a while until I can make some educated decisions about our needs and how they align with our budget, to say nothing of user friendliness as there are several of us that cover the sound board, of which I am the newest. Thank you ALL again for your input.
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Billy Snody

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2017, 08:38:21 pm »

Well I have had some professionals from a company in DFW come see us and our system to give some proposals on a route forward. Looking at our I/o meters on our dsp when the sound is running, we have some "blips" that go from the top of the green signal level up to the top of the scale, and yes totally random. I have not beeb able to get a pic of it happening when the system "mutes" yet but I have a short iPhone video of it in a live setting that I am trying to figure out how to post here so I can get some feedback on them. I have asked them to submit a quote to me to have one of their tech's come in with an o-scope to determine if it (blips) is being caused by the mixer or if it is isolated to the dsp. Hopefully the later then some proposed options to replace, tune, train, and finally move forward. Any comments welcome, just felt like I owed an update to those who have graciously given their valuable time and advise to our cause. Thank you one and all.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2017, 11:59:40 pm »

Well I have had some professionals from a company in DFW come see us and our system to give some proposals on a route forward. Looking at our I/o meters on our dsp when the sound is running, we have some "blips" that go from the top of the green signal level up to the top of the scale, and yes totally random. I have not beeb able to get a pic of it happening when the system "mutes" yet but I have a short iPhone video of it in a live setting that I am trying to figure out how to post here so I can get some feedback on them. I have asked them to submit a quote to me to have one of their tech's come in with an o-scope to determine if it (blips) is being caused by the mixer or if it is isolated to the dsp. Hopefully the later then some proposed options to replace, tune, train, and finally move forward. Any comments welcome, just felt like I owed an update to those who have graciously given their valuable time and advise to our cause. Thank you one and all.

You don't need any scope to see / hear where the blipping is coming from, Take a small powered speaker and plug into the board and listen and wait then plug it into an output on the DSP and listen and wait!

 You could split the signal from the board, one side of the split feeds the system and the other feeds the powered speaker, connect the second powered speaker to one of the main DSP outputs. Wait and listen to see what speaker the blipping comes from and there will be your answer. You could do the same test with a stereo headphone amp and a set of headphones.

A battery powered headphone amp and a set of headphones are a great piece of low tech trouble shooting equipment.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 07:33:11 am by Mike Caldwell »
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Billy Snody

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2017, 05:44:01 pm »

You don't need any scope to see / hear where the blipping is coming from, Take a small powered speaker and plug into the board and listen and wait then plug it into an output on the DSP and listen and wait!

 You could split the signal from the board, one side of the split feeds the system and the other feeds the powered speaker, connect the second powered speaker to one of the main DSP outputs. Wait and listen to see what speaker the blipping comes from and there will be your answer. You could do the same test with a stereo headphone amp and a set of headphones.

A battery powered headphone amp and a set of headphones are a great piece of low tech trouble shooting equipment.
I should have mentioned that the blips are not audible that I can find, just visible on the input / output led's of the dsp, but if I can coble something together, I may try the powered speaker test anyway. Thanks.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2017, 07:32:42 pm »

I should have mentioned that the blips are not audible that I can find, just visible on the input / output led's of the dsp, but if I can coble something together, I may try the powered speaker test anyway. Thanks.

In that case just disconnect the inputs and outputs from the DSP and then start watching it, if no blips, connect the inputs back up to the DSP, start watching, don't blink, if still no blips connect the outputs back to the DSP, start watching.

Have ever notice the meters on the board doing the blip dance?

Surprised your not hearing anything at the time of the blip, a click, pop, tick whatever, even if it's a dc pulse I would guess some artifact of it would make it through the high pass filters on the other hand some ultrasonic blip maybe able to go undetected.

Billy Snody

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2017, 04:50:16 pm »

So the DSP has been replaced with a mono 1/3 octave EQ from our old sound system and I am about to try to use the noise generator to get the feedback out. My question is do I first work on the monitor circuits without the mains, or the mains without the monitors, or do I do it all at the same time? Our monitors are on aux's 1 and 2 and our mains are on "M" out of the mixer through the EQ and using parallel input on the amp with stereo out. Up to this point I can not get any volume on our choir without getting feedback.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2017, 07:13:42 pm »

So the DSP has been replaced with a mono 1/3 octave EQ from our old sound system and I am about to try to use the noise generator to get the feedback out. My question is do I first work on the monitor circuits without the mains, or the mains without the monitors, or do I do it all at the same time? Our monitors are on aux's 1 and 2 and our mains are on "M" out of the mixer through the EQ and using parallel input on the amp with stereo out. Up to this point I can not get any volume on our choir without getting feedback.

If you only have a mono EQ you can't EQ both mains and monitors. 
Choir should not typically be fed back to itself in the monitors as that leads to problems such as feedback, among other things.

Was your DSP providing crossover functions? 
Was or providing limiting?

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Billy Snody

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2017, 08:35:49 pm »

If you only have a mono EQ you can't EQ both mains and monitors. 
Choir should not typically be fed back to itself in the monitors as that leads to problems such as feedback, among other things.

Was your DSP providing crossover functions? 
Was or providing limiting?

Lee

Maybe I should have restated that the two monitor circuits from aux 1/2 go through a DBX 231 EQ. They never went through the DSP. The DSP had no crossover or eq or delay or compressor/limiter settings. It was strictly being used as a line level splitter and feedback eliminator. I have engaged the 50 Hz filter on both amps and on the DBX. Also the PEQ on our mixer ( A/H GL 2400-32 ) is controlling our aux 1/2 simultaneously with the mains. Is that the norm and does it mean I need to change 1 to 32 internal jumpers to have independent control? I was told by A/H that aux 1/2 was pre eq, 3/4 were selectable and 5/6 were post but the pre/post switch seems to be global for 1/2. We have nothing going out on 3-6. I am seriously considering installing a BSS BLU-100 or 160 or maybe a Driverack 4820 if I cant tame this system with eq's.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2017, 09:43:48 pm »

I'm 97% certain you do not need a DSP to the likes of a BSS BLU series or a DBX 4820 for your system.

Don't take this wrong, you have given this a great effort over the past months and I'm sure it's been a learning experience but I think it may be time to bring some pro help to get your church's system back up and fully operational.

Billy Snody

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Re: Church sound sytem intermittently "muting"?
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2017, 05:35:45 pm »

I'm 97% certain you do not need a DSP to the likes of a BSS BLU series or a DBX 4820 for your system.

Don't take this wrong, you have given this a great effort over the past months and I'm sure it's been a learning experience but I think it may be time to bring some pro help to get your church's system back up and fully operational.
The professionals I brought in from DFW gave us a proposal for a BLU 100, install, tuning our room/system and some training at a little over $5k. I do like the 12/8 I/O setup of the blu100 and flexibility of the 160, I even like the 4/8 I/O of the 4820 but I am suffering a bit on the software for the BSS. Steep learning curve, but if I can figure it out it just may be a solid option as most all of the other dps's I look at are only 2 channel in and they apply configurations to paired outputs. If you have any other suggestions I am open to them.
Thanks.
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