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Author Topic: What to do with that third guitar??  (Read 5549 times)

Jay Barracato

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2017, 02:35:15 PM »

If you have input with the band one option is to change the acoustic to Nashville tuning.

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Jay Barracato

Mike Monte

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 04:34:23 PM »

So, I've been doing sound in various capacities for quite a few years now in everything from theatre to festivals to churches.

One problem I've always had is with bands that insist on having three (or indeed more) guitars. Bonus aggravation points if they are all electric guitars with varying amounts of distortion that all insist on playing all the parts, all the time. I always struggle with it sounding like an incomprehensible "wall 'o' noise".

I generally always find that if I have two guitars with one doing a clear lead and one doing a clear rhythm then I'm good, I can find there niche in the space and press on, but I've never found a good way to deal with 'that' third guitar. It always just ends up sounding like one of the others, or ends up getting relegated to the background of the mix.

So I've starting working with a band more regularly now that has three guitars, two crunchy distorted electrics and one acoustic .. and I just can't get them to sound like three individual guitars ... is this something I can fix in the mix, or is it something that has to be done in the arrangement?

Any thoughts?

Mark

Not much help but.....
I provided the rig for a multi-band event a couple of years ago (I do this event on an annual basis) and one of the bands shows up with 7 (yes, SEVEN) guitarists....only two of them brought amps.  The other five come to me with their cord "where do I plug in..."?
I only brought one stereo DI and one mono DI (the event rider only spec'd one channel of DI but I had brought an extra stereo DI just in case)

My answer: "I've got three channels available....you guys figure it out..."

What a mosh of sound....

I still get hired for this annual gig.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 05:28:24 PM »

One problem I've always had is with bands that insist on having three (or indeed more) guitars. Bonus aggravation points if they are all electric guitars with varying amounts of distortion that all insist on playing all the parts, all the time. I always struggle with it sounding like an incomprehensible "wall 'o' noise".

Have you brought them all out to the FOH position and had them listen to the resultant sound?  That might inspire some change in the source material......or not.

Dave
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 05:47:29 PM »

Breaking up and distributing chords amongst multiple guitarists can have a magical effect.  Getting rid of the "jar of bees" tone by reducing gain will make a guitar tone come out bigger and more in line with the guitarist's intentions.

But

Not every time does every instrument need to be highly distinct in the mix.
Some folks are old enough to remember Phil Spector.  For that matter, many varsity country acts I see have multiple guitar strumming away at all six strings.  It's called a pad.  A deliberate wall of sound that sits at the bottom of a mix to give it a foundation.  It's not so bad if you look at it like a orchestral section or a choir.  Rather than fight to separate everything, let it amalgamate into one averaged pad.  That actually averages out the time of the players, especially helpful with beginner bands who tend to all play the same thing.  While they'll tend to play similar high gain Line-6 patches, you can eq a bit differently so that the blend sounds bigger than a singular jar of bees wailing away.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 05:48:37 PM »

Breaking up and distributing chords amongst multiple guitarists can have a magical effect.  Getting rid of the "jar of bees" tone by reducing gain will make a guitar tone come out bigger and more in line with the guitarist's intentions.

But

Not every time does every instrument need to be highly distinct in the mix.
Some folks are old enough to remember Phil Spector.  For that matter, many varsity country acts I see have multiple guitar strumming away at all six strings.  It's called a pad.  A deliberate wall of sound that sits at the bottom of a mix to give it a foundation.  It's not so bad if you look at it like a orchestral section or a choir.  Rather than fight to separate everything, let it amalgamate into one averaged pad.  That actually averages out the time of the players, especially helpful with beginner bands who tend to all play the same thing.  While they'll tend to play similar high gain Line-6 patches, you can eq a bit differently so that the blend sounds bigger than a singular jar of bees wailing away.

But, like any other pad, it needs to be low in the mix.  Easier if they're all playing SS Marshals or Line-6 Spyders, a bit more difficult if they all have 4-12s
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 06:42:16 PM by Stephen Kirby »
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 06:35:58 PM »

Pick the best 2 and put those in the mix.

Leave the third one out....only if their spouse is not there.  ;D
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Steve M Smith

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2017, 06:11:14 AM »

Pick the best 2 and put those in the mix.

Yes.

If two guitarists are playing the same thing, perhaps we only need to hear one of them.


Steve.
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Mark Olsen

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2017, 08:32:18 AM »

Well thanks for the responses everyone .. it sounds like I'm not alone, feeling the pain of trying to sort this out.
I'm glad in a way that there isn't something obvious that I hadn't worked out yet ..

I've never really run a system anywhere that could do a good stereo image, so I've never really worried about panning anything, but maybe this is a good excuse to experiment.

The band I'm working with now is already starting to listen and actively thinking about their arrangements, which is great.

However, I do lots of work around different places and it would be handy to have a few techniques if this situation comes up where I don't know the band.
I seem to always revert to turning one down, and inevitably someone will always say, "Hey I can't hear Bob" .. can you turn him up?"

Thanks All

Mark
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David Smeaton

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2017, 08:41:45 AM »

Yes.

If two guitarists are playing the same thing, perhaps we only need to hear one of them.


Steve.
I am sure I have heard that referred to as 'pick one' mixing, just pick one and mix the other out on the fader.  :)
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Jay Barracato

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Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 11:37:45 AM »

Well this may be blasphemous to the worshippers of their "holy mix", but my main strategy for any one off show or short term engagement is to make sure the levels on stage are relatively even, balance the levels on the meters, and smooth it out with compression at the group level.

Like tuning, timing, tempo, and artistic creativity, it is not my job to impose my view of what the band should be on their performance.

When mixing I am not the artist, I am just an assistant preparing a blank canvas for the artist.

Ever watch a group try to do harmonies when the tech is constantly fiddling with the levels?

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Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What to do with that third guitar??
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 11:37:45 AM »


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