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Author Topic: Engineer? Or not?  (Read 35044 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2017, 06:53:41 PM »

While a degree reflects exposure to the knowledge, it doesn't assure retention. 
or understanding....   I found that writing about topics forced me to really understand stuff well enough to explain it, not just think I understand it, which seems to be the human condition about most things. Teachers must really understand the material or be crappy teachers, I've seen a few of those.
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For non-degreed "engineers" I draw the distinction between "self-educated" and empirically learned.  In music terms, empirically learned is like a blues player doing it by ear.  They've poked around at the instrument and worked out things that sound good and things to avoid.  But they have no idea why.  In contrast Wes Montgomery was a great example of self taught.  It's often pointed out that he didn't have a formal music education.  That is he didn't graduate from a music conservatory.  But he studied on his own and acquired the same amount of knowledge.  Just not in a formal structured curriculum.
Not sure i follow the distinction.

I am a moderator on a DIY electronics forum and I am amazed at the kids who just dive into a project unwilling to invest any time in learning some fundamentals... you don't need a BS to read a book, or find some free tutorials on the WWW.

It should be hard (but possible) to stay ignorant these days.

JR
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2017, 07:47:09 PM »

or understanding....   I found that writing about topics forced me to really understand stuff well enough to explain it, not just think I understand it, which seems to be the human condition about most things.
What I have found interesting over the years is how much of a better understanding of a subject I get when I explain it to somebody else.

Often it makes me think of the subject in a way I never have before.

We BOTH learn.

I have heard that in ancient Hebrew, the same word was used for both the teacher and student.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2017, 11:31:16 PM »

What I have found interesting over the years is how much of a better understanding of a subject I get when I explain it to somebody else.

Often it makes me think of the subject in a way I never have before.

We BOTH learn.

I have heard that in ancient Hebrew, the same word was used for both the teacher and student.
I have an old theory about that... verbalizing ideas cause the two halves of our brain to communicate with each other, so you get 2x the brain working.

JR
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2017, 03:21:23 AM »

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2017, 08:36:45 AM »

I have an old theory about that... verbalizing ideas cause the two halves of our brain to communicate with each other, so you get 2x the brain working.

JR
I can believe that.

What is really hard to do when this happens is keeping the astonishment to myself when I "finally get it" and not looking embarrassed to the person I am explaining it to.

I think the first time it happened was when a friend asked me how can I have a 8 ohm speaker when the woofers are 8 ohms and the HF driver is 8 ohms.  He that it should be 4 ohms.

It was during my explanation of how a basic crossover worked that all of a sudden it hit me.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2017, 10:33:08 AM »

or understanding....   I found that writing about topics forced me to really understand stuff well enough to explain it, not just think I understand it, which seems to be the human condition about most things. Teachers must really understand the material or be crappy teachers, I've seen a few of those.Not sure i follow the distinction.
One of the things that going to college gives you, other than just the fundamental knowledge of the subject that you study, is the ability to think and write about a problem in a coherent manner.

Working with many uneducated stage hands who either never went to college or dropped out after just one or two semesters, I am struck by the utter lack of writings skills that they have. When I was in the union I was on the apprentice committee; and when giving journeyman's tests it was like torture trying to read the garbled gibberish that some of them put down on paper in their vain effort to try to answer the questions. They might know the information (or think they do) but they can't express that to another person in either a written or verbal manner.

It was almost painful trying to read their answers that are filled with incomplete sentences, long meandering explanations that try to randomly hit on every topic possible hoping that something will be the right set of terminology, or using the term that they are defining in the definition itself. However, the ones who did attend college can usually easily pass the tests because they are able to demonstrate that they know the information, in a clear and concise manner.

We have the same issue with the technicians that user groups send us to test for our building certification exams. So it's not just union guys. Most of these people haven't written a full paragraph since they left high school 20 or 30 years ago.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2017, 10:48:26 AM »

One of the things that going to college gives you, other than just the fundamental knowledge of the subject that you study, is the ability to think and write about a problem in a coherent manner.

Working with many uneducated stage hands who either never went to college or dropped out after just one or two semesters, I am struck by the utter lack of writings skills that they have. When I was in the union I was on the apprentice committee; and when giving journeyman's tests it was like torture trying to read the garbled gibberish that some of them put down on paper in their vain effort to try to answer the questions. They might know the information (or think they do) but they can't express that to another person in either a written or verbal manner.

It was almost painful trying to read their answers that are filled with incomplete sentences, long meandering explanations that try to randomly hit on every topic possible hoping that something will be the right set of terminology, or using the term that they are defining in the definition itself. However, the ones who did attend college can usually easily pass the tests because they are able to demonstrate that they know the information, in a clear and concise manner.

We have the same issue with the technicians that user groups send us to test for our building certification exams. So it's not just union guys. Most of these people haven't written a full paragraph since they left high school 20 or 30 years ago.
I'm sure it's worse today but back in the 70s-80s in my mail order kit business I sold lots of kits to college students who couldn't form a proper sentence, or spell the words correctly.

Last night on social media some kid(?) told me I was ignorant and had been "coned"....  ;D ;D

Alternately I am often impressed by the language skills of non-native speakers when they post to the WWW.

JR

PS: I almost failed english in HS and am a college drop out so I learned to write the old fashioned way, by reading. Now I find typos and misspellings in the daily newspaper, which doesn't make sense because articles these days are being written by computer programs. 8)
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Randy Pence

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2017, 03:00:06 PM »

I'm sure it's worse today but back in the 70s-80s in my mail order kit business I sold lots of kits to college students who couldn't form a proper sentence, or spell the words correctly.

Last night on social media some kid(?) told me I was ignorant and had been "coned"....  ;D ;D

i hate it when that happens
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2017, 05:34:28 PM »

i hate it when that happens


I thought of that but doubt the kid would get the references.

JR
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Jeff Carter

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2017, 07:18:26 PM »

What I have found interesting over the years is how much of a better understanding of a subject I get when I explain it to somebody else.

Often it makes me think of the subject in a way I never have before.

We BOTH learn.

I have heard that in ancient Hebrew, the same word was used for both the teacher and student.

Doesn't even necessarily need to be another person...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging


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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2017, 07:18:26 PM »


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