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[Ray Aberle]

Wow, hasn't that happened the last few times we've had threads like these? Article comes out directly addressing what we're all chatting about?

SHHHHHHHH! 

But yeah, for me personally (and by extension, the company) we're sound/audio engineers. That term does not imply any level of official certification for any engineering degree/organization, but simply "we're producing a desired outcome by judicious and appropriate actions chosen to reach the goal."

I'm not butt-hurt if someone calls me a sound guy, refusing to use the term "engineer" because not only do I NOT have an engineering degree, I have taken precisely zero college classes.

-Ray

[Justice C. Bigler]

I usually only use the term engineer when talking to lay people who are not part of the industry. Telling them that I am an "audio engineer" or "recording engineer" means something to them. They generally understand what those jobs are. Telling them that I am a theatrical sound technician or a live audio mixer person would leave them slightly mystified as to what that means.

I sign my work emails as "sound technician", in lower case.

[Jeremy Young]

Great thread.

In my current career in plumbing/hvac in the great white north, I deal with both Sales Engineers and Professional Engineers daily.  Both are educated, registered and bonded/insured for the work they produce.  The sales engineers are legitimately mechanical engineers, but instead of working for a firm hired by an architect or developer, they work for a manufacturer (like a hydronic boiler company) and help the local mechanical engineering firms select products for their specifications in their particular sales territory.  I don't know all the details, but business licensing and insurances *should* require proof of accreditation if you wanted to go around "engineering" things in mechanical construction.

I work for a wholesale supplier, but I cannot call myself an engineer as although I do designs of systems for qualified technicians (who hold trade tickets, and are registered and insured for the work they do) my designs are not certified by any particular body and I avoid the liability associated with doing a bad design.  In fact, locally a gas contractor (or electrical, or refrigeration, or geothermal) not only has to have a valid ticket, but must also be employed by a registered contracting company for their ticket to be valid. 

Similar to mixing sound, if I do a good job designing a heating system, the general population doesn't notice.  it's the bad mix or the bad heating design that people notice.  In my world at least, engineers charge you to design something, and are accountable (for years after installation in some cases) for it's performance.  I do lots of math for free in hopes of selling enough supplies to keep up with my gear-acquisition syndrome.  My role in the company is called a "technical sales associate".  Don't get me wrong though, if I do a bad design, if I want to keep my million dollar / year customer happy I'm absorbing labor bills for them to fix my mistake.  Really, most of the time I'm just calling people out on their inability to read manuals or attend training events.  I'd like to think I'm like the Ivan of the heating world, trying my best to help, with good intentions and experience littered with "it depends" and prodding for clarification from those who think everything can be made simpler than it really is.

I don't really care what people call me when I'm mixing, as long as it's not Mr DJ.  I'm really enjoying "Sound Clerk" and "Troll Who Herds Cats" though...I might have to make a shirt out of that!

[William Schnake]

As David said, later they will take the PE (Professional Engineer) exam.

If they pass, THEN they become an Engineer.

I would argue that a huge majority (there are exceptions) of the guys who call themselves "audio Engineers" could not get 1 question on a Engineering test right.

Ivan, you know that I can get one question right on the PE...I know my name.  Just kidding.

Bill

[Stephen Swaffer]

It was something I read somewhere.  But it has application.  In my world of manufacturing, there are very few degree programs teaching what we actually do.  Mostly folks come from some other discipline EE, ME, IE, and have to learn the field.  But I use that criterion to deal with the difference between empirical folks and people who actually think things out.  Trying again and again until it works is not what an engineer does.  And engineer applies critical thinking and scientific principles to work out what needs to happen and how to achieve it.......  I get pretty tired of entitled brats flailing around and then getting offended if you ask them to do their homework first.

I think there was a past thread some time back discussing how many college graduates where actually working in a degreed field they studied for after 15-20 years.

I do understand your distinction-however IME in industry, technicians are often those who fix things designed by engineers (in fairness not always engineering fails ).  A technician that changes parts haphazardly without thinking through what could cause the current problem is just as bad.

Most audio projects-be they a gig or install-probably have one or a couple of people rightfully doing "engineering"-so properly an engineer.  Probably a larger number of people that should be considered technicians-people verifying channels/links/why this speaker has no output whatever.

Who has more right to claim the title-someone who has a degree earned 20 years ago, but very little hands on (for whatever reason), or someone that has 20 years of in the trenches experience doing an engineering job, but they never finished a degreed course?  In some fields, classes studied while earning an engineering degree are obsolete within just a few years-though the discipline to earn the degree and the foundation have lasting benefit.

[John Rutirasiri]

I can't stand it either when people refer to me as a "DJ" when I'm mixing, just as I (an EE) hated being called "software engineer" when I was writing engine controller firmware for a living. 

My mentor was a die-hard hardware engineer and would always make us software folks feel 2" tall: "you software people call yourself engineers?  you can't solder worth a dime."

Sadly, many "software engineers' I worked with couldn't read a schematic.  Others didn't really know how to code...they were just doing API and library function calls.

My kids think I'm an engineer because I can fix their toys.

John R.

[Jeff Lelko]

I can't stand it either when people refer to me as a "DJ" when I'm mixing, just as I (an EE) hated being called "software engineer" when I was writing engine controller firmware for a living. 

My mentor was a die-hard hardware engineer and would always make us software folks feel 2" tall: "you software people call yourself engineers?  you can't solder worth a dime."

Sadly, many "software engineers' I worked with couldn't read a schematic.  Others didn't really know how to code...they were just doing API and library function calls.

My kids think I'm an engineer because I can fix their toys.

John R.

Same here when people call me a DJ despite the fact my laptop is playing filler music, but I still try to be polite.  Honestly, most clients I work with don't seem to know the difference between sound engineer/technician/DJ...  I'm just happy when they can get my "Light Guy" or "Pyro Guy" correct versus the usual "Sound Guy"!  I guess that's what happens when you wear too many hats that change depending on the day...

I get what you mean about being an EE too.  As an AE, at least in my line of work, you really need to know more than just flight dynamics and orbital mechanics.  You need to be able to read schematics (both electrical and fluids), write code, know circuitry, know materials, understand the basics of logistics, procurement, and scheduling, and the list goes on.  It's always eye-opening for interns to see just how much work, cooperation, and diverse skill sets it takes to make magical things happen!

[Jeff Bankston]

I can drive a steam locomotive.  Does that count?!


Steve.

Well I donno , I'll have to research that.

Well O.K. Mr. Squiggy says it counts. Welcome aboard the train to nowhere !

[John Roberts {JR}]

Just like every other time this thread triggers a lot of self inspection. When I was hiring a degree informed me that the holder had the discipline to attain that degree (that I didn't), and has been exposed to fundamental concepts.

A degree may get your foot in the door, but you still need to be capable and do the work.

JR

[Jamin Lynch]

Years ago whenever a fresh out of college engineer would start work at one of the local refineries, they work stick them with an old timer out in the plant for at least a year to gather all the knowledge that can't learned from a book.

When the old timer retired the younger engineer had a much better understanding of the area in the refinery he will be responsible for.

[ProSoundWeb Community]