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Author Topic: Engineer? Or not?  (Read 35043 times)

Mike Sokol

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 07:15:46 AM »

I can drive a steam locomotive.  Does that count?!
Steve.

Casey Jones you better watch your speed...

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 07:45:30 AM »

I'm sorry in advance if I offend anybody with my comments.

Is somebody who drives a car an "automotive engineer"?

Sadly most people people who call themselves "audio engineers" don't have the faintest idea of how this stuff actually works, can't read simple graphs, don't understand any of the simple math etc.

Of there are "sanitation engineers" and so forth.

And even the term "technician" is not correct.  I consider a "technician" somebody who understands, at least to a certain level, what is technically going on.  And that is more than simple "operation".

I prefer the term "soundman", whether or not it is a man or woman.  To me "sound woman" just sounds weird.  This is not a sexist statement at all.

"Sound person" also sounds weird.

Some of the best sound people I have worked with have been women.  And some of the worst as well.  To me, gender has nothing to do with it.

I think some people use the term "engineer", because it makes them feel important and they are doing something that is above the average persons capabilities.

But they are not doing any "Engineering" of any kind-at least in my mind.

A train Engineer is one of the odd exceptions-because it has been around for so long.

When my wife (I didn't know her then) got her EE degree, her dad gave her a train engineer hat :), because to him that signified an "Engineer".

Engineering students will often take the EIT (Engineer In Training) exam after they graduate.

As David said, later they will take the PE (Professional Engineer) exam.

If they pass, THEN they become an Engineer.

I would argue that a huge majority (there are exceptions) of the guys who call themselves "audio Engineers" could not get 1 question on a Engineering test right.

Sorry if this offended anybody, but most (again not all) cannot pass a simple audio test.

Meyer used to have a "Prequalification exam" that you needed to pass before you could even take a SIM class.

I have a copy of it, but could not find it online (at least in a quick search).

I bet most "mixers" would not pass-even though it is basic audio question.

But hey-anybody is an expert-until somebody smarter comes along to correct them.

Flame suit on.

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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Steve M Smith

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 08:24:33 AM »

My view is that my job title is engineer, my company hired me as an engineer and I do engineering work - therefore I'm an engineer.


Steve.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 09:07:36 AM »

My view is that my job title is engineer, my company hired me as an engineer and I do engineering work - therefore I'm an engineer.


Steve.
There are apparently legal distinctions to the title PE, presumably to protect the public from self described engineers who may lack some aspect of the prescribed knowledge, and to allocate liability in the event of losses.

I sometimes call myself a design engineer depending on the context of the conversation to facilitate communication (I can talk the geek talk), but I would never call myself a PE (just like I would never call myself a college graduate  :-[ ). I managed an engineering group with both degreed and non-degreed engineers. I found different levels of engineering talent from within both groups.

I think I may have known one actual PE and as I recall he was a high performing engineer.

We have discussed this here before, probably more than once.  :(

JR
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Geoff Doane

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 09:25:39 AM »


When my wife (I didn't know her then) got her EE degree, her dad gave her a train engineer hat :), because to him that signified an "Engineer".


My perspective may be similar to Ivan's, since both my father and younger brother have P.Eng degrees.  It was ingrained in me from an early age that the term "engineer" was not to be used lightly.  :)

Having said that, my diploma says "Electronics Engineering Technologist" on it, although the "engineering" part is an adjective, not a noun.  And neither my diploma or a fancy title qualifies me to mix any sort of live sound. 

I think the most egregious misuse of the word might be Sweetwater's "Sales Engineers".

I also try to avoid using the term "Recording Engineer" for the same reasons, although in many cases the person behind the console is engineering the session (if he has planned out how parts will be recorded, what mics will be used, etc. with an overall idea of how the production will fit together in the end).  I think the Brits had a term for this job in the '60s.  Something like "Balancing Mixer"? (Google wasn't any help for that one.)

FWIW, in Canada, the person driving the train has been known for years as the "engineman", although that has recently been changed to the gender-neutral "employee controlling the movement".

GTD
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 09:43:34 AM »

There are apparently legal distinctions to the title PE, presumably to protect the public from self described engineers who may lack some aspect of the prescribed knowledge, and to allocate liability in the event of losses.

Not over here!

I have worked with a couple of people here who have had degrees in electronics but turned out to be practically useless with no real engineering knowledge at all.  One couldn't even tell me which way round an LED should be wired.  It turned out that his degree was in electronic system design - basically, the ability to draw a block diagram was all that was needed!


Steve.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 09:51:42 AM »

I usually figure that technicians operate gear designed by engineers
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 11:03:19 AM »

Not over here!

I have worked with a couple of people here who have had degrees in electronics but turned out to be practically useless with no real engineering knowledge at all.  One couldn't even tell me which way round an LED should be wired.  It turned out that his degree was in electronic system design - basically, the ability to draw a block diagram was all that was needed!


Steve.
Are you talking about Professional Engineers or just degreed engineers (BS, MS, PhD)? I have had degreed engineers (BS) working for me who were not the sharpest stick in the bunch, but at least understood the terminology and some basics. The one PE I know of (it wasn't much discussed on the job) was respectable.

JR
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 11:13:21 AM »

Are you talking about Professional Engineers or just degreed engineers (BS, MS, PhD)?

BSc


Steve.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 11:25:18 AM »

For 30+ years I designed and engineered control systems for use in the refining and petrochemical plants. But I was not allowed by the company to call myself an engineer because I was not degreed in that field. I just had a lot of in the field experience. They gave me some other fancy title.

We did have a couple of degreed engineers with their PE in our local facility who were allowed to call themselves engineers by the company.
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Re: Engineer? Or not?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 11:25:18 AM »


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