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Author Topic: Helping someone get into SR  (Read 15004 times)

Kevin Conlon

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Helping someone get into SR
« on: January 11, 2017, 10:31:37 PM »

At a corp. gig some weeks ago one of the catering crew asked me how to learn the FOH mixing thing. This is a female and we talked about the male presence, and not many females in this line of work. I told her my stories of hanging out for free until i was given a chance. I was young then and made the time, no family, etc. I do not know her situation, but i don't think she has the time for that. I want to give her some real world learning. Sort of the way i learned. We have a big deal 2 week thing in March, highlight of the year for a small town and am thinking of giving her a chance. First task would be " take this 80 pound rack up the stairs to the far side of the stage". I won't do that, but would like to see the look i get. Anyway this (my job) is monitors for a good size production. I want her to be there for set-up so the flow is understood, maybe as simple as noting where everything goes. She can then help with the patching of both FOH and monitors. Once set up i can show her how to tweek simple levels when someone needs a change. I have never done this, i learned by watching and asking questions, still do. Maybe this will work for her too. Any teaching direction would be helpfull. Thanks and sorry for the long winded post.        Kevin. 
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 10:55:20 PM »

At a corp. gig some weeks ago one of the catering crew asked me how to learn the FOH mixing thing. This is a female and we talked about the male presence, and not many females in this line of work. I told her my stories of hanging out for free until i was given a chance. I was young then and made the time, no family, etc. I do not know her situation, but i don't think she has the time for that. I want to give her some real world learning. Sort of the way i learned. We have a big deal 2 week thing in March, highlight of the year for a small town and am thinking of giving her a chance. First task would be " take this 80 pound rack up the stairs to the far side of the stage". I won't do that, but would like to see the look i get. Anyway this (my job) is monitors for a good size production. I want her to be there for set-up so the flow is understood, maybe as simple as noting where everything goes. She can then help with the patching of both FOH and monitors. Once set up i can show her how to tweek simple levels when someone needs a change. I have never done this, i learned by watching and asking questions, still do. Maybe this will work for her too. Any teaching direction would be helpfull. Thanks and sorry for the long winded post.        Kevin.


I would not treat a woman any different than a man.  The ladies I know in this business would be offended by your desire to insulate her from that side of the business.  If she doesn't like moving heavy stuff around then this isn't the business for her.  Pushing faders is 10% of the job.  The other 90% is loading in/setting up/loading out.  Not sharing that with her would be a disservice.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 11:00:01 PM »

At a corp. gig some weeks ago one of the catering crew asked me how to learn the FOH mixing thing. This is a female and we talked about the male presence, and not many females in this line of work. I told her my stories of hanging out for free until i was given a chance. I was young then and made the time, no family, etc. I do not know her situation, but i don't think she has the time for that. I want to give her some real world learning. Sort of the way i learned. We have a big deal 2 week thing in March, highlight of the year for a small town and am thinking of giving her a chance. First task would be " take this 80 pound rack up the stairs to the far side of the stage". I won't do that, but would like to see the look i get. Anyway this (my job) is monitors for a good size production. I want her to be there for set-up so the flow is understood, maybe as simple as noting where everything goes. She can then help with the patching of both FOH and monitors. Once set up i can show her how to tweek simple levels when someone needs a change. I have never done this, i learned by watching and asking questions, still do. Maybe this will work for her too. Any teaching direction would be helpfull. Thanks and sorry for the long winded post.        Kevin.

Well there is no substitute for hands-on experience in a real production environment.

I was in a smiliar situation two years ago.  Participated in a high school "shadow" program where a senior who was interested in an audio career tagged along.
Long story short, it didn't work.  She could not show up at load-in (transportation issues), school would not allow any kind of wage (who wants to work for free?), etc.

I think for this to work, (1) the person has to be very committed (as in not committed to a full time job), and (2) he or she has to be compensated -- become a part of your crew.  I don't think it is about gender.

http://www.soundgirls.org

John R.


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Kevin Conlon

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 11:04:47 PM »


I would not treat a woman any different than a man.  The ladies I know in this business would be offended by your desire to insulate her from that side of the business.  If she doesn't like moving heavy stuff around then this isn't the business for her.  Pushing faders is 10% of the job.  The other 90% is loading in/setting up/loading out.  Not sharing that with her would be a disservice.
   I know, just don't want to start of on a bad note, let her lift, and watch and learn. No disrespect intended. She looks to be pretty strong.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 11:14:57 PM »

   I know, just don't want to start of on a bad note, let her lift, and watch and learn. No disrespect intended. She looks to be pretty strong.


Couple of other thoughts based on comments.


If someone is just tagging along to see what we do, then my comment was not appropriate. 


If they are committed to learning the business, you have the desire to be a mentor,  then they need to be compensated for the work.


If you are in a position to mentor someone that shows an aptitude for the audio profession I would tell you that it is a great joy to watch someone learn and to grow into a career from a job.  I had the chance to do this a few times in my other vocation IT.  A few individuals took off and are still at it decades later.  I am blessed to have been able to enable them.


There are only two reasons I am in the audio business today. 1 - I enjoy it 2 - To give the folks the work for us the opportunity to learn and grow.  Since I don't have to make money giving opportunity to these bright hard working kids is a joy I can't describe.  We have decent gear but it's my team I am most proud of.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Kevin Conlon

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 11:21:26 PM »

Well there is no substitute for hands-on experience in a real production environment.

I was in a smiliar situation two years ago.  Participated in a high school "shadow" program where a senior who was interested in an audio career tagged along.
Long story short, it didn't work.  She could not show up at load-in (transportation issues), school would not allow any kind of wage (who wants to work for free?), etc.

I think for this to work, (1) the person has to be very committed (as in not committed to a full time job), and (2) he or she has to be compensated -- become a part of your crew.  I don't think it is about gender.

http://www.soundgirls.org

John R.
  The gender thing is i have never tried to teach a woman in this field. I have shown girls how to fix their own motorcycles, even employed some. They got paid as any other person doing the same job. I am just not really a teacher by nature. If she is a watch,question and learn person i think it could go well. I look forward to helping her. I could be a stepping stone for the next thing in her life.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 11:42:39 PM »

If she is really interested, and I mean actually, seriously, really interested:

Bring her over to your shop for an afternoon, go through some of the basics on equipment and set up, what the jobs is, show her how to coil mic cables, etc... and then give her a copy of the Yamaha handbook or Stark's book and have her come back in a few weeks after she has read and studied them. Then do an hands on interview. Bring her on as a shop rat and entry level technician, you know the rest.

You have a great opportunity here. She may not know anything and has no experience, but that also means she doesn't have any bad habits or knowledge that is just plain wrong. If she comes back after reading the Yamaha book or Stark's book and has managed to retain even 25% of them, then you know she has the capacity and drive to do the job.
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Kevin Conlon

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2017, 11:58:03 PM »

If she is really interested, and I mean actually, seriously, really interested:

Bring her over to your shop for an afternoon, go through some of the basics on equipment and set up, what the jobs is, show her how to coil mic cables, etc... and then give her a copy of the Yamaha handbook or Stark's book and have her come back in a few weeks after she has read and studied them. Then do an hands on interview. Bring her on as a shop rat and entry level technician, you know the rest.

You have a great opportunity here. She may not know anything and has no experience, but that also means she doesn't have any bad habits or knowledge that is just plain wrong. If she comes back after reading the Yamaha book or Stark's book and has managed to retain even 25% of them, then you know she has the capacity and drive to do the job.
I had those same thoughts. Set up a system, let her mess with it. Also am going to loan her the yamaha book, and give her links to other reads as well. Did not expect this many replies. Thanks to all of you.  If it matters she is not a kid, somewhere in the 30's is my estimate.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 12:02:35 AM »

You know this, I know this, I'm guessing everybody who participates in this forum knows this, but I'll just say it to get it out there:

You aren't going to learn mixing by watching someone else. Sure, you might learn some theory, and you might learn what all those knobs do (in an empirical sense).

No, you're only going to learn mixing by actually doing it. And starting out running FOH for a major production just isn't going to happen without a high likelihood of turning it into a disaster.

So that means the mixing practice is going to have to happen in a less critical environment. Like running sound for Bandy the Clown before a roomful of kids. (OK, that's an extreme example.) Or maybe a garage band when they are practicing in their garage. Or maybe a pep rally in high school.

I think most of us started with that stuff: forgiving clients and forgiving audience. People who pay three figures (or more) for concert tickets generally aren't forgiving.

Not to say that you're not trusted, but that you need to start simple when you're just learning the basics. Then at some point, if your company is doing bigger stuff, you move to monitors. The folks running the FOH console are often the people who've been there the longest. (I do Bandy the Clown. I do the garageless garage band at the church youth camp. I do simple weddings. I figure I am wholly unqualified to run even monitors for a ticketed event.)

If you're wanting to mix music, you need to listen critically to a lot of music. Of many different styles and genres. Why are you hearing what you're hearing? How has the engineer set the EQ for the lead guitar versus the bass? Was the backup vocal just brought up in the mix to highlight that measure?

But before you even get to mixing, it's good to know how the sound is even getting TO the mixer. What microphones are selected? How are the keys patched in? The best way to do learn that is the grunt work of setting and striking the stage.

Like others have said, mixing is a small part of the whole thing, and if you don't understand the whole thing you will have a difficult time approaching the mix intelligently.

So start with the basics, and I mean the real basics: pushing cases, rolling cables, setting and striking. Just like you have to learn about the physical things about your car (oil, fuel, tire pressure, traction, acceleration) to maximize your driving experience, it's wise to learn the physical things about audio production to maximize your sonic experience. The person at FOH will be expected to understand ALL aspects of audio production, because when something goes wrong, that's where all eyes will be gazing.

And, for the love of it all, before you learn anything else, start with learning how to properly coil a cable.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:05:45 AM by Jonathan Johnson »
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John Chiara

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 12:03:17 AM »

   I know, just don't want to start of on a bad note, let her lift, and watch and learn. No disrespect intended. She looks to be pretty strong.
I had a possible intern show up at a club gig. 4'9" tall 85 lbs. I spent half the time bending down to be able to hear her talk. She seemed sincere but I couldn't see her able to work any real show.
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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 12:03:17 AM »


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