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Author Topic: Helping someone get into SR  (Read 14997 times)

Stephen Kirby

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2017, 07:10:22 PM »

Just spent the morning with a young woman at work going over the technical aspects of printed circuit board assembly.  She has a supplier management degree but works as a program manager for the operations group here.  A real go getter/doer.  I will always support someone who wants to understand the hows and whys.  When you see them putting together the connection from one step to the next, or they ask some question that dives into some foundational aspect, then there's hope for this next generation.  As opposed to the "go to the freezer, get the box" types who look at every process as a magic box that they just need to push on.

I often tell folks that SR is 30% moving heavy things, 30% winding up cables, 30% looking for electricity, and only 10% turning knobs.  It's probably true that that last 10% requires 90% of the knowledge though.  If you have someone who thinks critically and linearly, then they can acquire knowledge pretty quickly.  Give them a fishing pole and they'll work out the rest.  When looking for staff the first thing I look for is: can they think.  I can get them pointed in the right direction on the knowledge.

Trying to teach someone who just wants a 1-2-3 procedure is too frustrating to me.  I know they will come to some situation where 2 just doesn't quite fit with 3 and be totally stuck.  So in that vein, I really agree with the suggestions to offline set up a basic system and ensure the signal flow is understood.  Then get to how to modify the signal at the various points.  Then you can work at what ultimately comes out.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 08:35:22 PM »

If she is really interested, and I mean actually, seriously, really interested:

Bring her over to your shop for an afternoon, go through some of the basics on equipment and set up, what the jobs is, show her how to coil mic cables, etc... and then give her a copy of the Yamaha handbook or Stark's book and have her come back in a few weeks after she has read and studied them. Then do an hands on interview. Bring her on as a shop rat and entry level technician, you know the rest.

+1

And, if she is committed to learning more, from both a "book learnin'" AND "hands-on" perspective, have her look into GTCC's Entertainment Technologies Concert Sound and Lighting program, here in High Point, NC.  Top shelf Equipment and Instructors who have been there and done that.

http://degreeprograms.gtcc.edu/entertainment-technology/#toggle-id-1

Dave (disclaimer:  current student @soundgtcc )
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Kevin Conlon

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2017, 09:32:23 PM »

The reason why running sound works for Chris and I as a team is because we are just that - a team!...We both have our strengths and  weaknesses. Chris does get the lion's share of the lifting and heavy carrying but from the time we get to a location to the time I finally lay my hands on the mixer and can relax a bit,  I am non- stop working.
No, I cannot lift the speakers up onto the stands on my own, yes - there are items that I struggle to carry.... BUT I do most of all the wiring in, setting up peripheral stuff like routers and DI boxes, frequency scans for iems and battery checks and replacement, setting and wiring in lights and all the  other extra bits and pieces that we need to function.
Although I am unable to do those jobs Chris does, he will be the first to admit, he doesn't have grasp on a lot of the other stuff and we really couldn't do it as well without each other.
Thanks for chiming in as you are the only female i know of on this site. I hope my comments were not taken wrong. Part of me wishes i did not ask in the first place, feel like i put myself in corner. You know how to do your part as the rest of the band/crew know how to do theirs. That's how it should be, takes less time to get the job done in shorter order. I am responding to many posts here. The people interested in sound always see FOH as the target. Most have no idea whats involved to get there. Took me a bunch of years to mix a band people pay to see. I do not know, at this point, if she has any capacity for this work. We shall see. I will give her some basic training, as in reading and real life system connection, if she wants to learn more we will take it from there. The remark about the heavy cases for her first experience was not to imply a woman can't do it, it was more to not run her off before she ever got a chance. The job at hand that i want her to experience has at some points 17 vocal mikes plus the good size band, horns and all. No way i turn someone loose on that. I agree about learning at the garage band level thing. Hands on is the only way. Ear training is another story. As to the post about listening to all sorts of music and figuring out whats going on can't be done without some time behind the board as you don't know how eq and blending work until you have tried to do it. After being around sound for 30 plus years i still miss things from time to time, not as much as 15 years ago, but we all screw up sometimes. I want to show her a big deal production. If it does not scare her off, we will take it from there.  I am staying out of this now since i think i hit a nerve with the female thing and did not intend to start any trouble. Thank you all for your suggestions. If i remember i will report after the big show and see if we have a new sound girl working her way up.       Thanks to all.         Kevin.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2017, 11:51:15 PM »

Thanks for chiming in as you are the only female i know of on this site. I hope my comments were not taken wrong. Part of me wishes i did not ask in the first place, feel like i put myself in corner. You know how to do your part as the rest of the band/crew know how to do theirs. That's how it should be, takes less time to get the job done in shorter order. I am responding to many posts here. The people interested in sound always see FOH as the target. Most have no idea whats involved to get there. Took me a bunch of years to mix a band people pay to see. I do not know, at this point, if she has any capacity for this work. We shall see. I will give her some basic training, as in reading and real life system connection, if she wants to learn more we will take it from there. The remark about the heavy cases for her first experience was not to imply a woman can't do it, it was more to not run her off before she ever got a chance. The job at hand that i want her to experience has at some points 17 vocal mikes plus the good size band, horns and all. No way i turn someone loose on that. I agree about learning at the garage band level thing. Hands on is the only way. Ear training is another story. As to the post about listening to all sorts of music and figuring out whats going on can't be done without some time behind the board as you don't know how eq and blending work until you have tried to do it. After being around sound for 30 plus years i still miss things from time to time, not as much as 15 years ago, but we all screw up sometimes. I want to show her a big deal production. If it does not scare her off, we will take it from there.  I am staying out of this now since i think i hit a nerve with the female thing and did not intend to start any trouble. Thank you all for your suggestions. If i remember i will report after the big show and see if we have a new sound girl working her way up.       Thanks to all.         Kevin.

No nerve hit here Kevin.... My point was to simply share how we do things and how it can work by playing to our individual strengths. I have never been one of those females who thinks ( or tries to convince others) that I can do what a man can do physically- that is just silly - I cannot.  But I am strong  in other areas which is what makes me valuable to the team.
Take her under your wing and teach her... Don't wrap her in cotton - she will find out what she can and can't do.
Women bring some nice 'girlie' attributes to SR - like neat cable management for example and we think outside the box quite well too,  applying a different kind of logic to situations.  Sometimes Chris and I are able to troubleshoot by coming at stuff from different angles.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2017, 12:58:41 AM »

Thanks for chiming in as you are the only female i know of on this site. I hope my comments were not taken wrong. Part of me wishes i did not ask in the first place, feel like i put myself in corner. You know how to do your part as the rest of the band/crew know how to do theirs. That's how it should be, takes less time to get the job done in shorter order. I am responding to many posts here. The people interested in sound always see FOH as the target. Most have no idea whats involved to get there. Took me a bunch of years to mix a band people pay to see. I do not know, at this point, if she has any capacity for this work. We shall see. I will give her some basic training, as in reading and real life system connection, if she wants to learn more we will take it from there. The remark about the heavy cases for her first experience was not to imply a woman can't do it, it was more to not run her off before she ever got a chance. The job at hand that i want her to experience has at some points 17 vocal mikes plus the good size band, horns and all. No way i turn someone loose on that. I agree about learning at the garage band level thing. Hands on is the only way. Ear training is another story. As to the post about listening to all sorts of music and figuring out whats going on can't be done without some time behind the board as you don't know how eq and blending work until you have tried to do it. After being around sound for 30 plus years i still miss things from time to time, not as much as 15 years ago, but we all screw up sometimes. I want to show her a big deal production. If it does not scare her off, we will take it from there.  I am staying out of this now since i think i hit a nerve with the female thing and did not intend to start any trouble. Thank you all for your suggestions. If i remember i will report after the big show and see if we have a new sound girl working her way up.       Thanks to all.         Kevin.

Debbie brings a voice of reason to many topics.  She's a tremendous asset here.

I think I'd ask her why she wants to mix FOH.  It's a visible position so it's easy to say "hey, I'd like to learn to do that", but maybe she has some musical background or experience (or control issues, like many of us).  Your point about what it takes to get to FOH is spot on, though.  It takes a lot of listening and experience to be a good mixerperson who credibly works with different genres and styles.  That may not be the goal here, however.  If she's been observing you do corporate-type work (more presentation than entertainment) and she's keen on it, start training her now. 

After you show her the big deal production, ask her where she thinks she would fit in, both now and as her experience and knowledge increase.  The answers might surprise you.

Keep us posted, Kevin.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2017, 02:42:17 AM »

Just spent the morning with a young woman at work going over the technical aspects of printed circuit board assembly.  She has a supplier management degree but works as a program manager for the operations group here.  A real go getter/doer.  I will always support someone who wants to understand the hows and whys.  When you see them putting together the connection from one step to the next, or they ask some question that dives into some foundational aspect, then there's hope for this next generation.  As opposed to the "go to the freezer, get the box" types who look at every process as a magic box that they just need to push on.

I often tell folks that SR is 30% moving heavy things, 30% winding up cables, 30% looking for electricity, and only 10% turning knobs.  It's probably true that that last 10% requires 90% of the knowledge though.  If you have someone who thinks critically and linearly, then they can acquire knowledge pretty quickly.  Give them a fishing pole and they'll work out the rest.  When looking for staff the first thing I look for is: can they think.  I can get them pointed in the right direction on the knowledge.

Trying to teach someone who just wants a 1-2-3 procedure is too frustrating to me.  I know they will come to some situation where 2 just doesn't quite fit with 3 and be totally stuck.  So in that vein, I really agree with the suggestions to offline set up a basic system and ensure the signal flow is understood.  Then get to how to modify the signal at the various points.  Then you can work at what ultimately comes out.


 I have been a pilot for almost 30 years and I am fascinated by how people learn.  Personally I don't have a good memory for process.  I use checklists.  To me the level of effort to understand something is far lower than to memorize tasks.  Task based learning means you have to have process to deal with problems.  To me it compromises safety to have a pilot in command of a machine he doesn't understand.  The recent loss of control accidents can be used to support my belief but the truth is our current training methods have increased aviation safety dramatically.


To tie this back to sound, someone wants to be taught how to adjust EQ.  I honestly don't even know how to start to teach it, just move the controls, listed, repeat.  Isn't that how we learn?  Then once we learn what works we sharpen the saw, acquire finesse and transfer knowledge from similar situations in complex and creative ways.  Isn't this the essence of learning and the beginning of understanding?


 
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2017, 03:36:59 AM »

To tie this back to sound, someone wants to be taught how to adjust EQ.  I honestly don't even know how to start to teach it, just move the controls, listed, repeat.  Isn't that how we learn?  Then once we learn what works we sharpen the saw, acquire finesse and transfer knowledge from similar situations in complex and creative ways.  Isn't this the essence of learning and the beginning of understanding?

IMO techniques can be taught, math can be taught, but not initiative and certainly not the "ear."  Music is not objective like writing C code.

John R.
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2017, 05:55:12 AM »

IMO techniques can be taught, math can be taught, but not initiative and certainly not the "ear."  Music is not objective like writing C code.

John R.

... so you were born with mixing skills?   :-)
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2017, 11:29:22 AM »

... so you were born with mixing skills?   :-)
Mixing is simple when you are not fighting the system (or the arrangement).

One of the interesting things is that I think everyone finds limitations. Mine grow as I age. I can lift well over 200 lbs from knee height to shoulder height. Picking up an xlr laying on the deck is an exercise in pain.

That doesn't mean I sort my equipment in 200 pound units. I figure anything that even a smaller sized person cannot easily lift, should be a team lift for safety reasons.

At the lounge level, I love the larger ewi mic cases, as even fully loaded they are a reasonable lift.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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Jay Barracato

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2017, 12:18:02 PM »

As the years go by, I appreciate rolling units more and more. I attach wheels to everything I possibly can these days (or purchase already attached) and those items that I can't, I lay on top of pieces of equipment that do have wheels - subs make great dollies!!... so virtually everything we have at shows can be wheeled in. Of course wheels are of no help when lifting in and out of vehicles or up stairs or putting speakers up on stands etc but for the most part, I can at least carry in and out as much stuff as Chris does. Wheels baby - wheels!!!
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Helping someone get into SR
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2017, 12:18:02 PM »


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