ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Soundgrid servers  (Read 2157 times)

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3893
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Soundgrid servers
« on: January 09, 2017, 11:35:24 am »

I took advantage of the holiday special and bought a copy of Waves Multirack (thought I see the special price has been extended).


It looks to me like the Wavesgrid servers are simply dedicated to plugins.  They don't have any hardware DSP provisions.


Am I missing something?  They have video's of using plugins live with a Digi console using the Wavesgrid HA server pair.  The stated latencies seem very low for a software based plugin that runs on a general purpose OS.


Any insight?



Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17380
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 12:10:36 pm »

I took advantage of the holiday special and bought a copy of Waves Multirack (thought I see the special price has been extended).


It looks to me like the Wavesgrid servers are simply dedicated to plugins.  They don't have any hardware DSP provisions.


Am I missing something?  They have video's of using plugins live with a Digi console using the Wavesgrid HA server pair.  The stated latencies seem very low for a software based plugin that runs on a general purpose OS.


Any insight?

I wish I knew more about Soundgrid... most of the live users of Waves plugs are still on the AVID Venue 3.x desks (SC48, Profile/dShow).  We've seen a handful of Soundgrid servers come through our venues and I recall in 2 instances that the servers were non-functional but I wasn't told the precise nature of the failures.  The rest... I wasn't mixing or setting up the console so I can say what plugs were running or if there was too much latency to use a compressor plug on a snare drum.

I personally have Platinum and a handful of other licenses; I really like having the plugs available and use them much more than the Digidesign/Bomb Factory plugs because Waves uses far less DSP.

Soundgrid Server does not have any analog i/o or *other* DSP - it takes the digitized audio, applies the plug in processing and returns the signal to the desk.  It's doing DSP in the big, general sense of the term but only in a "bag job" way.  It's hanging off the side of the console to perform dedicated processing functions that the console's internal computer cannot support (memory, CPU, etc) or that the console manufacturer does not allow to run under the mixer OS.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

David Sturzenbecher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1204
    • Sturz Audio
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 02:04:16 pm »



It looks to me like the Wavesgrid servers are simply dedicated to plugins.  They don't have any hardware DSP provisions.


Any insight?

Can you explain a little further on this question?

A soundgrid server is just a Linux PC running the waves code, for just waves plugins (ok, there may be others that run under the plugin alliance thing).  All the servers I have seen use "soundgrid" as the transport which is a layer 2, audio over IP method. To get into the sound grid audio network you need an interface of some type, be it madi or built into the desk with a card or built in (digico).   

With multitrack native you can run the plugs on any PC or mac but take a latency and performance hit, but your IO can be any old way to get audio in and out of a laptop.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
CTS-D, CTS-I
AES Full Memeber

Dave Bednarski

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 02:20:30 pm »

As the others mentioned - not much to them.  The physical piece of equipment is really unexciting.  I've owned one for a year+ now and never plugged in a monitor to the back to see what may pop up when it boots up.  I briefcase it over to the mixer, plug it into a switch that sits between the console and the laptop... waalaa.

I have mine racked in a shallow SKB 3U rack.  It fits nicely in an EWI case w/ a hannay reel.  :)  http://dbmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/sgs.jpg
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3893
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 02:31:34 pm »

As the others mentioned - not much to them.  The physical piece of equipment is really unexciting.  I've owned one for a year+ now and never plugged in a monitor to the back to see what may pop up when it boots up.  I briefcase it over to the mixer, plug it into a switch that sits between the console and the laptop... waalaa.

I have mine racked in a shallow SKB 3U rack.  It fits nicely in an EWI case w/ a hannay reel.  :)  http://dbmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/sgs.jpg


That's really interesting.


So - you have to buy a Soundgrid server to get this "Linux" license.  When you run Multirack in native mode on a Mac and connect it via your console (in this case an M32 via Firewire) it's a different scenario?


What software do you run on the laptop when you have the soundgrid?  So the Firewire to the console goes to the Soundgrid server and it is headless?


Can you run the Soundgrid DSP software on 3rd party hardware?



Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

David Sturzenbecher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1204
    • Sturz Audio
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 02:38:47 pm »


That's really interesting.


So - you have to buy a Soundgrid server to get this "Linux" license.  When you run Multirack in native mode on a Mac and connect it via your console (in this case an M32 via Firewire) it's a different scenario?


What software do you run on the laptop when you have the soundgrid?  So the Firewire to the console goes to the Soundgrid server and it is headless?


Can you run the Soundgrid DSP software on 3rd party hardware?

You should have received a multitrack soundgrid and a multitrack native license.  The native license allows you to host waves plugins on any PC/Mac. The soundgrid license allows you to host the plugins on the soundgrid server.  What console are you running that has a FireWire soundgrid interface? My guess is any FireWire connection you have is just acting as an standard audio interface to a multitrack native setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
CTS-D, CTS-I
AES Full Memeber

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3893
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 02:55:17 pm »

You should have received a multitrack soundgrid and a multitrack native license.  The native license allows you to host waves plugins on any PC/Mac. The soundgrid license allows you to host the plugins on the soundgrid server.  What console are you running that has a FireWire soundgrid interface? My guess is any FireWire connection you have is just acting as an standard audio interface to a multitrack native setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


That is correct....See below but that is the native setup.  That was where I did not understand but as I read the manual Soundgrid mode requires Soundgrid devices, you need the Soundgrid I/O and a MADI interface for the console.


So I am stuck running native on a dedicated PC.  Since I received the Soundgrid server license I was hoping I could run it on generic hardware but even if Soundgrid will run on a generic hardware I would still need:


1 - Soundgrid switch
2 - MGO Interface MADI Card for M32
3 - Compliant Switch
4 - Soundgrid server







« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 03:00:03 pm by Scott Holtzman »
Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Dave Bednarski

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 02:58:11 pm »

Yep!  You need an I/O card.  Which I think you can competitively do now with with the X/M32 using some sorta madi wizardry?

My implementation may be pretty vanilla but the card is essential.

The mixer has a Waves I/O card installed which connects into a NetGear variety 8 port switch.  SoundGrid Server plugs into this switch.  My MacBook also plugs into this switch via its ethernet port (dongle).  That's it for physical hardware connections.

When I startup MultiRack SoundGrid on my laptop it looks to see the SoundGrid Server is on the network.  If it is found on the network transacts the 'digital audio' with it for processing.  The MultiRack SG is the GUI.

Maybe this visual helps?  Here are my connections.

http://dbmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/sgs-connections.png

DMI-1 is the Mixer, it is set to send 40 channels of audio to MultiRack-1.

MultiRack-1 being the software it self on the MacBook that manages the plugins and works transacts with the SoundGrid Server.

MultiRack-1 returns 40 channels of audio back to the DMI-1 card on the mixer.  That completes the round trip.

Concurrently, the DMI-1/Mixer is sending 40 channels of audio the "SG Driver-1", which is the generic computer ASIO style driver on my laptop.  In my case that audio is being pipe'd into Waves Tracks Live for a multi track recording.  No return trip necessary.

http://dbmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/sgs-rack.png

In MultiRack SoundGrid the DMI-1 input shows up as the audio source for the racks.

Thats it.  My setup is simplistic but I'd suspect a common use case.  Not sure if this helps connect any dots.  The entire thing is kinda anticlimactic. 
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3893
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 03:09:15 pm »

Yep!  You need an I/O card.  Which I think you can competitively do now with with the X/M32 using some sorta madi wizardry?

My implementation may be pretty vanilla but the card is essential.

The mixer has a Waves I/O card installed which connects into a NetGear variety 8 port switch.  SoundGrid Server plugs into this switch.  My MacBook also plugs into this switch via its ethernet port (dongle).  That's it for physical hardware connections.

When I startup MultiRack SoundGrid on my laptop it looks to see the SoundGrid Server is on the network.  If it is found on the network transacts the 'digital audio' with it for processing.  The MultiRack SG is the GUI.

Maybe this visual helps?  Here are my connections.

http://dbmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/sgs-connections.png

DMI-1 is the Mixer, it is set to send 40 channels of audio to MultiRack-1.

MultiRack-1 being the software it self on the MacBook that manages the plugins and works transacts with the SoundGrid Server.

MultiRack-1 returns 40 channels of audio back to the DMI-1 card on the mixer.  That completes the round trip.

Concurrently, the DMI-1/Mixer is sending 40 channels of audio the "SG Driver-1", which is the generic computer ASIO style driver on my laptop.  In my case that audio is being pipe'd into Waves Tracks Live for a multi track recording.  No return trip necessary.

http://dbmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/sgs-rack.png

In MultiRack SoundGrid the DMI-1 input shows up as the audio source for the racks.

Thats it.  My setup is simplistic but I'd suspect a common use case.  Not sure if this helps connect any dots.  The entire thing is kinda anticlimactic.




Thanks Dave so you have the Waves card for the Yamaha?  On the M32 the MADI is the only option I can see.  That makes it a $2400 investment.  It is worth that much over native?


I think you might be able to do a $1500 solution with the Rednet PCIe card and the Dante card for the M32.



Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Helge Dr. Bentsen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 356
  • Oslo, Norway.
Re: Soundgrid servers
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 03:21:43 pm »

Dante has too much latency for Soundgrid use.

This is the setup on my Souncraft Performer:

1. Computer running multirack Soundgrid. It acts as the GUI for the plugins, all the processing is done by the server
2. Soundgrid Server, it does the number crunching.
3. Digigrid MGO optical to soundgrid converter. Converts signals from optical madi to the soundgrid transport protocol and back again.
4. Network switch that connects all the units.

The desk is loaded with a Optical Madi options card. The desk sees the inputs/outputs of the options card.

Hope this helps.

http://www.waves.com/1lib/images/live/sliders/madi/sg/2.jpg

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.092 seconds with 19 queries.