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Author Topic: School Auditorium Speakers  (Read 16020 times)

Barrett Abney

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School Auditorium Speakers
« on: December 08, 2016, 11:02:43 AM »

I work for a 50,000 student school district with 7 High School auditoriums.  I have wept at the horrid quality of our auditoriums sound systems.  One has football stadium style horns in it.  Oh the reflections and harmonics!
Anyhow, I am thinking of writing up a suggestion to my supervisor to recommend Meyer speakers.  I worked with Meyer in the past with Mike Hearne, the sound engineer for Promise Keepers several decades ago.  He helped our 1000 seat church acquire a set of CQ1's for the sanctuary to replace the aged horns and flown subs.  Those 2 speakers sounded like warm honey butter on sourdough bread! 
I'm looking today to recommend something similar but the CQ1 is no longer produced.  I nearly cried.  What is Meyer replacing the CQ1 with?  The UPQ-1P?  Or something else?  The auditoriums are medium sized.  15,000 to 20,000 sqft and seat between 600-1100.  I'm really hoping to convince the development panel to take sound more seriously with a good recommendation of a CQ1 style Meyer speaker.

This auditorium is very similar to the Gulf Coast High auditorium, it seems to be a bit smaller.  GCH is our largest.
http://www.bhpka.com/riverdale_files/stacks_image_49.jpg
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 11:08:23 AM by Barrett »
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Ray Aberle

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 11:05:25 AM »

Where to start......

Oh yeah, here it is! Welcome to the Pro Sound forums! You will find a wealth of knowledge on here, and we're here to help! However, per the Rules of Participation here, you do need to post using your Real, Full Name. Would you mind popping back into your Profile and updating your Display Name to reflect your Real, Full Name? Regrettably, we are unable to assist you until you comply!

Thanks,

Ray
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 11:13:26 AM »

My take?

Speccing speakers because you like them is a great way to spend money on something that probably wont work.

Find a sound company in your area to do it right.
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Barrett Abney

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 11:20:21 AM »

My take?

Speccing speakers because you like them is a great way to spend money on something that probably wont work.

Find a sound company in your area to do it right.

Dealing with government folks who have zero background in audio means you have to lead them to water.  Otherwise, they will install some Tandy speakers from Radio Shack and pay Meyer Speaker prices for them.  Which is pretty much what we currently have.  They don't tend to listen to professionals, they just hand the contractor a list of required equipment and the contractor fulfills the order.  Nothing in government works the same as it does in the private sector.

So, I'm going to recommend something.  And that something has to be the best of what I have experience with (Meyer CQ1 or something similar).  If you have anything that might help me with my suggestion to these government decision makers, that would be very helpful.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 11:35:37 AM by Barrett Abney »
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2016, 11:47:20 AM »

Barrett,

I'm not sure that you understood the point of Nathan's post.

YOU find a sound company or consultant to help YOU write the specs for the systems, which YOU then submit to your bosses.

There are lots of different A level speaker manufacturers out there who make many different products which are all capable of fulfilling the needs of your school auditoriums. Each room may be a little different and need a slightly different type of speaker or install. What works in one room may not be the best choice for each of them. That's where working with an experienced professional sound company or consultant will help you. They can help you define what the needs are, what trouble areas are and what will fit into your budget.

Speaking of budget...do you have one? there's a huge difference between a speaker system that is $10,000 and one that is a $half a million. And frankly, with the picture that you posted, if you are looking at an A level manufacturer like Meyer Sound, you're probably looking at a half million dollar project by the time you include labor.

I work for a government entity. In fact, I just this week submitted my initial paper work for a $4.54 million PA system renovation to our capital improvement projects list. So I know what it takes to get that kind of project on the radar of a government entity. But it's no different than any other organization. You talk to consultants, you familiarize yourself with the products on the market that meet your objectives and you put it down on paper and submit it up the chain. Eventually, it gets funded and you can go through the whole process again because everything you speced 5 or 6 years ago has been replaced with a newer product. Then one day, 8 or 10 years down the line you get to issue a purchase order for PA gear in the 6 or 7 figure range and a few months after that a semi truck loaded with brand spanking new speakers and consoles back up to your loading dock and you get to spend a week unpacking and tossing cardboard and cellophane into the dumpster.

Your job as the house tech or the district's AV guy is to break the project down into manageable chunks and then distill the language down to something that is meaningful and understandable by management folk who don't care about the different between a point source speaker or a line array, or who have no clue about proper rigging techniques etc... And most importantly to help them to understand WHY the current system doesn't meet the strategic and tactical objectives of the organization and how a new system will provide a better solution.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2016, 12:09:45 PM »

The FIRST (nothing else matters if this is not meet) thing is to determine the coverage needed by the speakers in the available location positions.

The SECOND thing is to determine how loud then need to be for the given purpose

The THIRD is to determine what the actual budget is and what it needs to include (speakers, amps, processing, wiring, install, flyware, cost of getting signal or power to the loudspeaker location etc)

THEN-and ONLY THEN do you start to look at "what a speaker sounds like".

If the first elements are not meet, then it does not matter how well you like a particular loudspeaker.

Sound system DESIGN is exactly that-DESIGN.

It involves MUCH more than "XYZ speaker sounds great-I think I can use it anywhere".

Sure you can-until you start to get complaints about people whos seats are out of the pattern or can't hear because it is not loud enough or doesn't provide the same freq response as the FOH position.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 12:11:49 PM by Ivan Beaver »
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Barrett Abney

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2016, 12:19:21 PM »

Barrett,

I'm not sure that you understood the point of Nathan's post.

YOU find a sound company or consultant to help YOU write the specs for the systems, which YOU then submit to your bosses.

There are lots of different A level speaker manufacturers out there who make many different products which are all capable of fulfilling the needs of your school auditoriums. Each room may be a little different and need a slightly different type of speaker or install. What works in one room may not be the best choice for each of them. That's where working with an experienced professional sound company or consultant will help you. They can help you define what the needs are, what trouble areas are and what will fit into your budget.

Speaking of budget...do you have one? there's a huge difference between a speaker system that is $10,000 and one that is a $half a million. And frankly, with the picture that you posted, if you are looking at an A level manufacturer like Meyer Sound, you're probably looking at a half million dollar project by the time you include labor.

You guys are all speaking from the paradigm of private business.  What you're saying IS correct if I'm a private or corporate individual looking to install a system.  This is not the case.  I do not have the authority to invite a contractor to give me estimates or review our needs.  But the planners above me do not have the experience to do what you're suggesting either.  Many of them are prior-teachers...  If you have never been a part of the ugly bureaucracy of government [especially school government], then you will not understand.

I'm just trying to figure out if the CQ1 has a compatible replacement, and if not, what speaker, from your experiences, might be similar?  My job is to get the ball rolling in the right direction with these planners.  But the ball is oblong, and the path is filled with triangles.  It's a nearly impossible task, and all your suggestions are really good.  But do not apply here.  At some point down the road, after they have decided to deviate from their prior methods, then I can suggest they follow what you have said.  Till then I need to show them that there is another path with a better ball.  And I have to show them something real, not just concepts.  Most of these folks are not engineers.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2016, 12:20:12 PM »

What is Meyer replacing the CQ1 with?  The UPQ-1P?  Or something else?

The CQ1 and CQ2 have been replaced by the UPQ1 and UPQ2. They sound the same and are slightly smaller.

Ivan's advice is on the money, but if a speaker with the characteristics of the UPQ series turdn out ot be what you are looking for, they are a great sounding solution.

Mac
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 12:36:48 PM »

I think the (hugely experienced) posters aren't talking from anywhere but trying to get you THE BEST SOLUTION to the problems you presented.  It's not a business / institutional debate.  The variety and quality of products available now are pretty amazing, and choosing a specific speaker without looking at the true requirements is a recipe for failure.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 12:42:35 PM »

You guys are all speaking from the paradigm of private business.  What you're saying IS correct if I'm a private or corporate individual looking to install a system.  This is not the case.  I do not have the authority to invite a contractor to give me estimates or review our needs.  But the planners above me do not have the experience to do what you're suggesting either.  Many of them are prior-teachers...  If you have never been a part of the ugly bureaucracy of government [especially school government], then you will not understand.
No, I am not.

I work full time for a city owned performing arts venue.

I've made it past three rounds of lay offs, two rounds of furloughs, and watched in vain as a $96 million dollar project got whittled down over the course of a week to a cool $1 million. And it's taken me 8 years to get my management to understand why we need $4.5 million in PA system renovations, and they are behind it 100% now (largely because of the loss of that $96 million request).

If you are the AV rep or house sound tech for your school's auditoriums, then YES YOU DO IN FACT have the authority to invite consultants to meet with you and discuss your needs.

Do it right or do do it at all. Just throwing some speakers up with some half assed rigging is what got your auditoriums into the situation they are in now.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 12:47:38 PM by Justice C. Bigler »
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Re: School Auditorium Speakers
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 12:42:35 PM »


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