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Author Topic: E609 oops  (Read 10145 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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E609 oops
« on: October 22, 2016, 11:54:04 AM »

Last nights show...Alternative rock 4 piece band.

Small bar, low ceiling, wood floor, walls and ceiling. Also, back wall only about 30ft from the front of the stage  ( yes- it was small)

Set up one SRX818sp along with 2 SRX812's. Acoustic drums, Bass direct to Sansamp to PA, E609 on guitarist's Marshall combo, all iem.
The guitar player helped us set up - although we normally do it all ourselves.

Had very little time (as usual) to sound check but I have the band's show settings in memory so I let them soundcheck mainly for their iems and figured I would be able to dial in everything before the second song. After sound check,  the bass player said that he could hear 'reverby' sounds from the drums which was odd as I had no FX on the drums. They all said they were lacking clarity. Bit weird and I put it down to the room - no time too start troubleshooting and everyone said not to worry.

I always start out a little subdued and slowly ramp up after a couple of songs. However, last night I found that I was getting an awful bass feedback around 100hz but couldn't isolate it. It seemed that nothing was really the culprit yet everything was. It meant I couldn't get to where I wanted to be level wise and it became very distracting for me. I also found I had to compromise the bass and kick to try to prevent the low howl even more.

I spent ages tweaking EQ, FX - I even changed the HP setting on the sub just to see if I could get rid of the feedback but the only solution seemed to be to turn down. Not too bad a solution in a small bar but still frustrating for me.
I had also noticed earlier that I had a low gain on the guitar compared to usual but figured he was giving me less due to the smaller space so I adjusted accordingly.

After a good 3/4 way into the first set, I had resigned myself to the fact that I could either kill myself trying to sort things out or I could sit back and relax a bit, mix the show and the lights and enjoy it - albeit at a lower volume ( no-one else would care probably)......then - I noticed something.  The E609 on the cab didn't look right - I never set it up. Just to be sure without jumping on stage on a whim, I googled an image of the E609, zoomed in and there it was - the FRONT is the grey side and I was looking at the gray side. I turned down the guitar gain, I walked over to the cab, pulled off the tape, turned the mic around and re-taped it.

As I walked back I could see smiling faces and thumbs up from the band members which I was told was because at that moment everything in their iems became clear.  At FOH, I adjusted the guitar gain and suddenly I found I could get everything up where it should be and the rest of the show was great!!

The reason I post this is because I cannot believe that one simple mistake could cause a multitude of problems. The 'right' side of the mic was picking up not only the stage volume but FOH too - especially because the sound was bouncing off the back wall and getting back to the stage area so even though it was the guitar mic that was incorrectly installed, it affected everything on stage  whether I tried to turn up vocals or instruments, it still caused the low feedback.



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Brian Adams

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 12:22:29 PM »

I've seen techs from national acts make the "flipped 609" mistake, several times. Once I saw 2 techs argue about what "front" meant while they were placing mics (the guy who was right eventually won), but that was back when the e609 was fairly new. I doubt there's that kind of confusion anymore.

I've always caught it before soundcheck, but it would be an easy thing to overlook. I'm surprised that it affected the sound that much, you must have been on a small stage for it to affect the sound that severely.
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George Dougherty

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 01:20:16 PM »

I've seen techs from national acts make the "flipped 609" mistake, several times. Once I saw 2 techs argue about what "front" meant while they were placing mics (the guy who was right eventually won), but that was back when the e609 was fairly new. I doubt there's that kind of confusion anymore.

I've always caught it before soundcheck, but it would be an easy thing to overlook. I'm surprised that it affected the sound that much, you must have been on a small stage for it to affect the sound that severely.
The 609 and 906 do a pretty decent job of rejecting what's behind them.  Aiming the cardioid null toward the amp would likely need another 6-10db of gain which really exacerbates the problem. 

It wouldn't help with the room effect in the IEM's, but it would have helped the LF feedback to have a HPF on the guitar channel up towards 200Hz or higher.  It does cut some of the LF content for a less full tone when solo'd but it's only fighting the bass down there and it's not uncommon in studio mixes to go 2-300Hz on the HPF.  My experience with it is that nobody notices and it only helps improve clarity out front and in the IEM mixes.  I've only had one guitarist complain in the past and he wanted pretty much an "all me" mix.  You can also do a lower cut point with a heavier low shelf cut in the 2-300Hz range.

Either way in small spaces its even less of an issue since the guitar amp carries much of the LF with a broader pattern and the PA adds clarity.  If the guitarist aims their amp across the stage or back at themselves that's even better.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 01:25:18 PM »

... I googled an image of the E609, zoomed in and there it was - the FRONT is the grey side and I was looking at the gray side.

At least the current "Silver" series has two different colored faces.  I have a pair of originals, which are entirely black, making visual troubleshooting from a distance more of a challenge.

Dave
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Mac Kerr

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 01:42:59 PM »

I've done the same thing with an AKG 414.

Mac
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Steve Garris

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2016, 02:48:32 PM »

I hate to admit that I did the same, once, with my E906.
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Jim Rutherford

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 03:06:59 PM »

Now I know what "front" means


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Dave Garoutte

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 03:47:54 PM »

Now I know what "front" means
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A month ago I was in the audience for a Dumpstfunk show and noticed the 609 backwards.
I was reluctant to say anything to the tech, knowing how much I like to be told by some random audience member that something is wrong.  I did anyway and they were thankful.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 04:03:29 PM »

It is a common enough problem with my atm450's that I give drummers a speech about which way they should be pointed.

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Alec Spence

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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 07:44:12 PM »

*So* easily done - and I still think the legend "front" is misleading, as an obvious connotation is that it should be forward facing, rather then "front" referring to the front of the mic.

The e906 is a little more obvious - make sure the logo is visible
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Re: E609 oops
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 07:44:12 PM »


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