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Author Topic: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist  (Read 3753 times)

Seth Albaum

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 :'(

I'm donating services (in kind) for a fashion show co-hosted by my local chamber of commerce. I want to put my best sound forward.

I was recently sent a youtube vid for a zumba track (blech). Anyway, it's a particular remix and a clean version of a song. It's just low rez.

I searched for legal avenues to obtain a better sounding copy. None that I can find.
Sketchy and questionably-legal youtube to mp3 converters are not a good idea.
Playing youtube live from wifi is not a good idea.

My rule is that mp3's need to be 320mpbs, and that's minimum. But, there's a lot of junk out there that's been upsampled and ripped, I'm afraid. When I tell clients I need "better quality" tracks in cases where they're supplying (usually dance groups), it doesn't go well. So, I usually take care of it, myself.

What do you do in these situations? I know most customers think their low bit rate files sound fine, but what they have for playback isn't the same...
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Milt Hathaway

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 01:05:51 pm »

You give the customer what they want.
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Seth Albaum

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 01:29:55 pm »

You give the customer what they want.

That's the easy answer and often the best. I cringe at the sound quality, though. There's the "customer," and then there's the potential customers in the room who may agree with me that it sounds like crap.

I'm looking to market my business, also. Also, zumba and dance troops are the worst when it comes to supplying tracks, and I've done quite a bit of work with them. Seriously, what they give me hurts my ears, and it's often stuff I can't get on my own.
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 03:06:40 pm »

In doing event work, sometimes using lower quality audio sources is necessary. You can try to contact the person who uploaded the specific track and see if they have a higher quality version. If there was a commercial release of this at some point check sites like Discogs for an original source as well as overseas sites, record pools, Beatport, etc... If you have to use a rip, you can run it through a processing program like Platinum Notes to clean it up a bit. I try not to use anything like that but one wedding couple wanted a specific acapella  version of Bruno Mars' Marry Me, which was done by two non-famous/non-commercial performers - You Tube was the only place it was ever available.
Always inform the client that you prefer not to use questionable sources, as the lower quality is even more noticeable when being played at higher volumes through a professional P.A. so that they understand the quality drop may be very noticeable and they are OK with that. What specific song are you looking for?
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Robert Piascik

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 03:14:40 pm »

I understand your frustration and agree with you but you have two choices: use what they give you or find something better, legally or illegally. If it were me I wouldn't sweat it much either way. I wouldn't have any qualms about trying to obtain illegal version that is higher quality, and/or, your room full of potential clients are presumably other dance troops either don't know or don't care about the quality of their tracks either.  If you are pleasant and easy to work with and give them what they want (even though it may sound horrible to you) I think that's going to go further towards getting you new business.
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Johannes Halvorsen

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 08:11:47 pm »

What?!? Seven hours and no lecture on licensing? This place is going to the dogs.
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Seth Albaum

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 11:00:01 pm »

What?!? Seven hours and no lecture on licensing? This place is going to the dogs.

I found other remixes of this track, but not the particular one the customer wants. It could very well be that this remix isn't "licensed" and that's why. It's a zumba group that is going to perform before the start of a fundraising fashion show. Zumba is infiltrating everything!!  ::)
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Lyle Williams

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 01:42:10 am »

I had to do streaming to someone's phone, bluetoothed to a tiny speaker, wireless mic'd to the mixer recently.  (Handheld mic pointing at bluetooth speaker)

This was to deliver on a requirement that hadn't been mentioned prior to the day.

It really surprised me.  It didn't sound bad.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 12:16:46 pm »

Zumba's business model is as such-
- They 'register' Zumba instructors (for a fee)
- They charge their instructors a monthly subscription fee
- Zumba provides the instructors with "approved" music monthly
- Zumba (the corporation) handles the music licensing for public play, and share that approval with their instructors through that monthly subscription fee

This all being said- the Zumba group should (if they are official, Zumba- licensed) have legal permission for their music to be played with their performance, and they should be able to contact the Zumba corporation to get this music track for playback at their event. If Zumba no longer offers that track, you should ask them to consider choosing another song. But, since they are Zumba-licensed, I BELIEVE you can live stream the YouTube video legally. (But, we're professionals, and that's not something we'd like to ever to. ;) )

-Ray
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Kevin McDonough

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2016, 04:30:11 am »

I understand your frustration and agree with you but you have two choices: use what they give you or find something better, legally or illegally. If it were me I wouldn't sweat it much either way. I wouldn't have any qualms about trying to obtain illegal version that is higher quality, and/or, your room full of potential clients are presumably other dance troops either don't know or don't care about the quality of their tracks either.  If you are pleasant and easy to work with and give them what they want (even though it may sound horrible to you) I think that's going to go further towards getting you new business.

hey

yeah second this. I do a lot of similar work and always try and find better quality tracks or versions if I have notice in advance. Half the time it's just something they've heard on youtube and there isn't better quality available, and the other half it's just them turning up with a CD, or these days a phone, and expecting you to play it there and then, so no chance to even look.

Dance troupes in particular are notorious for having both bad sounding copies, and tracks that are made up of a few different snippets edited together in the worst possible way, with terrible cuts and transitions between the songs.

But the funny thing is that's what they like, and when I edit things together with much better transitions, they actually don't like it as much and prefer the rubbish ones. As always, 'better' is a subjective term.

Just smile and explain it wont sound the greatest ever as it's not a brilliant copy of the track, but you'll do your best. Then play it and mess with the EQ as best you can, try and make it passable. Most people wont notice the difference and are more focused on their little girl or boy dancing/singing anyway.

k
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 10:30:28 am »

I like it when at the last minute someone hands me their phone saying they got the music from You Tube and it's obvious they recorded it by holding the phone next to the distorted speaker on their laptop. For added enjoyment you can hear the phone klank against the lap case every now and then.

Playback audio quality of locally produced video clips can be fun as well.

Marcus Bosch

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 11:59:24 am »

If someone is performing a choreographed routine, it is unlikely they will consider another track, nor is it appropriate that an audio operator would suggest such a thing. If they have mixed a couple of tracks together, for instance, you will be stuck with their mix, because the choreography will require the exact timing. .. unless of course, you can get the original tracks and remix it yourself.... a lot of effort to go to for a 2 minute Zumba demonstration, though. :)

Zumba's business model is as such-
- They 'register' Zumba instructors (for a fee)
- They charge their instructors a monthly subscription fee
- Zumba provides the instructors with "approved" music monthly
- Zumba (the corporation) handles the music licensing for public play, and share that approval with their instructors through that monthly subscription fee

This all being said- the Zumba group should (if they are official, Zumba- licensed) have legal permission for their music to be played with their performance, and they should be able to contact the Zumba corporation to get this music track for playback at their event. If Zumba no longer offers that track, you should ask them to consider choosing another song. But, since they are Zumba-licensed, I BELIEVE you can live stream the YouTube video legally. (But, we're professionals, and that's not something we'd like to ever to. ;) )

-Ray
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 12:05:22 pm »

If someone is performing

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

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Ray Aberle

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 01:31:55 pm »

If someone is performing a choreographed routine, it is unlikely they will consider another track, nor is it appropriate that an audio operator would suggest such a thing. If they have mixed a couple of tracks together, for instance, you will be stuck with their mix, because the choreography will require the exact timing. ..
Since the services are being donated, I would argue there's a bit more leeway in the OP making requests such as this. He wants to make sure that the sound is the best it can be, since he's presumably advertising/otherwise getting visibility for the show.

I'm not sure if you read my post or not, but again, Zumba provides the music for their instructors. The instructors have to use the music that Zumba provides, since it's appropriately licensed for public play. They won't have mixed two tracks together- if you go to a Zumba class, you will see they're simply playing tracks from a playlist on their audio playback device.

unless of course, you can get the original tracks and remix it yourself.... a lot of effort to go to for a 2 minute Zumba demonstration, though. :)
Doing a live mix of the tracks would be OK. To mix it to a recording, and then playback, is creating a new, distinct version of both songs, which would then need to be appropriately licensed for public playback.

-Ray
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Don T. Williams

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 03:28:43 pm »

I don't know about the legalities, but about eight years ago, I was ask to "burn" a set of tracks to a CD for a Ballet Folklorica dance troupe.  Many of the tracks were cassettes and some were of live bands that played songs that were not available from any source.

On one of the tapes, I heard the pop of the cassette starting the recording process, the person walk across the room and drop the needle on the turntable, and then walk away.  I can't be certain, but I could swear it was a 78 speed record playing through a gramophone!

I was ask it could clean that up for the "tracks" CD!
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George Dougherty

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Re: When a high-res version of a dance track customer wants doesn't exist
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2016, 11:56:58 pm »

If the system sounds good at all other points in the show and the Zumba track sounds like crap, I don't think I'd want to work with a potential client that held me responsible for a few minutes of poor audio with zero understanding that the rest of it was really what my regular product sounded like.

IOW, don't sweat it at all.
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