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Author Topic: AFS in theater system  (Read 16146 times)

David Allred

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2016, 08:46:37 AM »

Who is responsible for mic placement (consistency) and mic swaps between actors?  Are they on top of things?  Is there a "system" that the "effector" and the "effectees" all understand?
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jesseweiss

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2016, 10:00:30 AM »

Who is responsible for mic placement (consistency) and mic swaps between actors?  Are they on top of things?  Is there a "system" that the "effector" and the "effectees" all understand?

It varies year to year.  Sometimes I am able to get another teacher who's working on the play to help supervise this, sometimes I am not. Many times the teacher back stage is not the best option, because they are clueless.  I'm in the booth at the sound board, so obviously I am unable.

I do have 2 specific 8th graders that have been working with me since 6th grade that know what to do.  They are reliable and trustworthy.

Before we hand out the mics the first time we review everything, and then on and off throughout the week of the show.
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David Allred

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2016, 11:58:00 AM »


I do have 2 specific 8th graders that have been working with me since 6th grade that know what to do.  They are reliable and trustworthy.

Before we hand out the mics the first time we review everything, and then on and off throughout the week of the show.

I would make large, easy to read and follow, charts.  Showing body-pack color or # and the names of the users in order.  Post it wherever these change may take place.  It only take one incorrect swap to throw all pre-planning for mute, level, EQ, etc, out the window.
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jesseweiss

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2016, 12:15:26 PM »

I would make large, easy to read and follow, charts.  Showing body-pack color or # and the names of the users in order.  Post it wherever these change may take place.  It only take one incorrect swap to throw all pre-planning for mute, level, EQ, etc, out the window.

I do provide charts, but probably not big enough and color coded.

Fortunately for this show, the only swaps needed will be at intermission, as all 16 will be individually assigned.  The swaps are because we are doing abridged versions of 2 Shakespeare plays and they are almost completely 2 different casts.

But I am going to try to take the time to get scenes setup.

The biggest issue is I'm not a sound person.  I'm a teacher (and drummer outside of school).  I took over doing sound, instead of hiring out, because it was cheaper for the district, gave us more control, etc... and I know something about sound from running by band's PA.

I am still only familiar with the simplest of features of the LS9, and since it's such a complex board it's daunting.  I'm not finding the workflow very user friendly.
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Luke Geis

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2016, 01:38:01 PM »

Learning on a digital board really isn't ideal. The issues arise from having too much on your plate from the get go. It is sort of like riding a motorcycle before having ever ridden a bike. They are one in the same in their basic function, but totally not the same......

Spend some time going through the menu's and looking up tips and tricks for the mixer. You will be quickly exposed to a mind boggling number of things you can do to make your life easier. The most basic concept of a digital mixer is to make possible all the desires one would have with an analog system, but all contained within one unit. In doing so there is a bit of a learning curve and some workflow changes to get used to. Knowing an analog system inside and out helps tremendously to navigate a digital desks layout.

My typical trick to just about any digital mixers workflow is to follow a typical analog flow.

1. HA or mic gain knob is ALWAYS first and easiest to find.

2. Next in line is almost universally the Dynamics section for things like gates and compression. If you were to insert this into an analog mixer it would typically exit after the HA, but be switchable to be pre or post EQ.

3. EQ is next in line. It is self explanatory.

4. Sends for auxes and or buss mixes. Again this makes sense.

All mixers tend to follow that basic work flow. Some mixers like the Soundcraft Si series have the WYSIWYG layout ( What You See Is What You Get ) and is nearly identical to the layout I prescribe above, the only difference is instead of being set in menu's and layers of screens, it is setup to be adjustable from the work surface itself. Simply select a channel and adjust the desired parameters. The LS9 is one exception where you must select a channel and often make a second button press to " call up " a menu that will allow you to see and adjust parameters with more precision. However the more advanced stuff such as scene changes and preset recalls are almost all the same on most mixers. You can set up some sort of user defined key ( some have dedicated ones ) that allow you to scroll and select through a list of saved scenes. Once recalled, you can adjust at will as always.

With digital mixers I have a few tips that really help make the workflow easy and simple.

1. Set things up so that as much work as possible can be done in the top layer. You do not want to be flipping back and forth between layers during a show.

2. Know what layer you are in before making a change to a channel. This is pretty much an add on to rule 1, but you invariably always have to switch layers at one point.

3. Select a channel before adjusting a parameter. If you know what layer you are in, then you must first select the correct channel before making a change.

4. HOME IS YOUR FRIEND. Always find and know where the home button is on your digital mixer. If you are ever lost and don't know where you are, home will get you to a comfortable place. It is often times the quickest way to exit a menu and get back to an overview screen that will show you where you are at. It will also quickly get you out of  sends on fader modes and other such fader modes that take you away from the main mix or current layer.

5. Take the time to label the channels and mix busses. If you switch layers and select a channel or buss, it is very helpful to have it labeled so you know what it is. This is part of system management 101 and you can name just about everything on a digital mixer; so no excuse not to.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2016, 03:51:08 AM »

Learning on a digital board really isn't ideal. The issues arise from having too much on your plate from the get go. It is sort of like riding a motorcycle before having ever ridden a bike. They are one in the same in their basic function, but totally not the same......

Spend some time going through the menu's and looking up tips and tricks for the mixer. You will be quickly exposed to a mind boggling number of things you can do to make your life easier. The most basic concept of a digital mixer is to make possible all the desires one would have with an analog system, but all contained within one unit. In doing so there is a bit of a learning curve and some workflow changes to get used to. Knowing an analog system inside and out helps tremendously to navigate a digital desks layout.

My typical trick to just about any digital mixers workflow is to follow a typical analog flow.

1. HA or mic gain knob is ALWAYS first and easiest to find.

2. Next in line is almost universally the Dynamics section for things like gates and compression. If you were to insert this into an analog mixer it would typically exit after the HA, but be switchable to be pre or post EQ.

3. EQ is next in line. It is self explanatory.

4. Sends for auxes and or buss mixes. Again this makes sense.

All mixers tend to follow that basic work flow. Some mixers like the Soundcraft Si series have the WYSIWYG layout ( What You See Is What You Get ) and is nearly identical to the layout I prescribe above, the only difference is instead of being set in menu's and layers of screens, it is setup to be adjustable from the work surface itself. Simply select a channel and adjust the desired parameters. The LS9 is one exception where you must select a channel and often make a second button press to " call up " a menu that will allow you to see and adjust parameters with more precision. However the more advanced stuff such as scene changes and preset recalls are almost all the same on most mixers. You can set up some sort of user defined key ( some have dedicated ones ) that allow you to scroll and select through a list of saved scenes. Once recalled, you can adjust at will as always.

With digital mixers I have a few tips that really help make the workflow easy and simple.

1. Set things up so that as much work as possible can be done in the top layer. You do not want to be flipping back and forth between layers during a show.

2. Know what layer you are in before making a change to a channel. This is pretty much an add on to rule 1, but you invariably always have to switch layers at one point.

3. Select a channel before adjusting a parameter. If you know what layer you are in, then you must first select the correct channel before making a change.

4. HOME IS YOUR FRIEND. Always find and know where the home button is on your digital mixer. If you are ever lost and don't know where you are, home will get you to a comfortable place. It is often times the quickest way to exit a menu and get back to an overview screen that will show you where you are at. It will also quickly get you out of  sends on fader modes and other such fader modes that take you away from the main mix or current layer.

5. Take the time to label the channels and mix busses. If you switch layers and select a channel or buss, it is very helpful to have it labeled so you know what it is. This is part of system management 101 and you can name just about everything on a digital mixer; so no excuse not to.

The indicator you are mixing on the wrong layer is the lack of response in the mains and the dirty look from the performer who's monitor you just pushed the guitar lead up 6db in. 

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Mike Karseboom

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2016, 11:32:28 AM »

On the general topic of GBF with a bunch of WL93's in use, it individual channel compression a useful tool to get weak voiced child actors louder?  Or does this tend to cause more feedback?
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2016, 12:40:18 PM »

On the general topic of GBF with a bunch of WL93's in use, it individual channel compression a useful tool to get weak voiced child actors louder?  Or does this tend to cause more feedback?
Not useful

Compressors take the edge off when a kid gets too loud.  If the kid isn't loud enough for the mic then the director made a casting error.

Think about when people stop talk and those compressors open up.... feedback city


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Luke Geis

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2016, 03:02:04 PM »

Anti dynamics ( ala compression ) do two things. They reduce dynamics and increase average RMS spl level. While both of those seem the same, they are not. If no make up gain is used, then the compressor really only controls the dynamics. The dynamic range will still shrink, but the overall SPL will not increase. Now if make up gain is used you can get quiet things louder, but with one big gotcha. The quiet stuff will be made louder ( like breathing, background noise and clothes movement ) while the louder stuff will be made to stay within a certain dynamic range. This is great for snares and kick drums where you want them to have punch and sit in the mix where you want them, but a quiet singer will always be and sound quiet. You can make them louder with compression, but it comes at a cost. GBF ( gain before feedback ) is the same no matter what for any given mic. If raising its level will induce feedback, then compression won't help. If you don't raise the channel level, then all the compressor will do is lock down the peaks of the audio signal. You want the given channel louder though, so you will have to increase the level via the channel fader or make up gain. That increase is what brings the mics gain to the point of feedback. No increase in actual output has been acquired. The compressor only shrinks the dynamic range allowing for more RMS level ( average spl ), it does not make the channel louder. The channel will have a higher perceived loudness due to reduced crest factor / rms level, but will not actually produce more volume.
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jesseweiss

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Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2016, 07:22:45 PM »

Anti dynamics ( ala compression ) do two things. They reduce dynamics and increase average RMS spl level. While both of those seem the same, they are not. If no make up gain is used, then the compressor really only controls the dynamics. The dynamic range will still shrink, but the overall SPL will not increase. Now if make up gain is used you can get quiet things louder, but with one big gotcha. The quiet stuff will be made louder ( like breathing, background noise and clothes movement ) while the louder stuff will be made to stay within a certain dynamic range. This is great for snares and kick drums where you want them to have punch and sit in the mix where you want them, but a quiet singer will always be and sound quiet. You can make them louder with compression, but it comes at a cost. GBF ( gain before feedback ) is the same no matter what for any given mic. If raising its level will induce feedback, then compression won't help. If you don't raise the channel level, then all the compressor will do is lock down the peaks of the audio signal. You want the given channel louder though, so you will have to increase the level via the channel fader or make up gain. That increase is what brings the mics gain to the point of feedback. No increase in actual output has been acquired. The compressor only shrinks the dynamic range allowing for more RMS level ( average spl ), it does not make the channel louder. The channel will have a higher perceived loudness due to reduced crest factor / rms level, but will not actually produce more volume.
In have compression on for the kids but only to control feedback if they decide to scream or cover the Mic. For this it is extremely useful.

Since I'm moving to head worn mics, hopefully it will be less of an issue.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: AFS in theater system
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2016, 07:22:45 PM »


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