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Author Topic: Record  (Read 7090 times)

Bob Kidd

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Re: Record
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 12:50:00 PM »

Your initial question mentioned a quick turnaround which to me implies that you need a stereo track to hand someone after the show. Steven mentioned that he records 4 channels and mixes in post. That is a better option but if you need an immediate turn-around then running the audience mics and LR mix to a stereo bus or matrix for recording is faster as no post work is needed. I do the 4 track method weekly for my church band. It takes me about 10 minutes to split the 4 or 5 songs and export. I already have a DAW project set up with the typical processing and mix.

If I have only two ambient mics then I prefer them on stage facing the audience. If more are available and I have time and room to place them, I'll add a stereo room mic like JR suggested. This is really a preference and feasibility thing. There isn't always room to put mics in a good spot out in the audience but there is almost always room on stage.

A note about EQ: You'll want to high-pass the ambient mics. Depending on how they sound, I'll also do a low shelf around 300 Hz, -3 to -6 dB, to keep the mud out. This is where mixing them in post helps as you can dial them in better.

Thanks! Your correct was looking for quick turnaround. I'm actually going to do both. Meaning, record directly from m32 USB with ambient mics onstage. Do you have ambient mic in your live mix? Also, run tracks on wave . Just have to figure out how to record the l/r mix separately. It shows 32 inputs on wave recording. Thanks!
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Record
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 01:00:54 PM »

Thanks! Your correct was looking for quick turnaround. I'm actually going to do both. Meaning, record directly from m32 USB with ambient mics onstage. Do you have ambient mic in your live mix? Also, run tracks on wave . Just have to figure out how to record the l/r mix separately. It shows 32 inputs on wave recording.

The M32 USB interface is 32 channels. What gets sent to those 32 channels is up to you based on the Card routing on the M32. You'll need to route the LR bus to two channels on the Card Out section.

No ambient mic in the live mix if it's pulling from the LR bus else you'd be sending that to the PA. I suggested above to use a separate stereo bus for your recording mix. That's more complicated but could yield better results.

For example:
- Bus 9/10 set to post-fader
- all faders at 0 (nominal). This gives you the same mix as LR but with the ability to make relative adjustments.
- ambient mic channel set to pre-fader so that it is not dependent on the LR mix fader level.

Listen to the 9/10 bus and mix in the ambient mic as needed. Record the 9/10 bus to the USB drive or DAW.

I always un-assign the ambient mic from the LR bus just to be safe.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 01:03:48 PM by Corey Scogin »
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Steve Kennedy-Williams

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Re: Record
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 02:34:37 PM »

The M32 USB interface is 32 channels. What gets sent to those 32 channels is up to you based on the Card routing on the M32. You'll need to route the LR bus to two channels on the Card Out section.

No ambient mic in the live mix if it's pulling from the LR bus else you'd be sending that to the PA. I suggested above to use a separate stereo bus for your recording mix. That's more complicated but could yield better results.

For example:
- Bus 9/10 set to post-fader
- all faders at 0 (nominal). This gives you the same mix as LR but with the ability to make relative adjustments.
- ambient mic channel set to pre-fader so that it is not dependent on the LR mix fader level.

Listen to the 9/10 bus and mix in the ambient mic as needed. Record the 9/10 bus to the USB drive or DAW.

I always un-assign the ambient mic from the LR bus just to be safe.

For a fast turnaround the methodology above is solid.

For acts with significant stage sound, LR alone or with audience facing ambient won't sound complete. An XY pair at stagelip captures your stage sound that the LR is mixed to reinforce. I find that there's a good amount of audience bleed from cardioids in the xy pair, but audience facing hypers or shotguns can give bit more if needed.
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Bob Kidd

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Re: Record
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 03:50:25 PM »

The M32 USB interface is 32 channels. What gets sent to those 32 channels is up to you based on the Card routing on the M32. You'll need to route the LR bus to two channels on the Card Out section.

No ambient mic in the live mix if it's pulling from the LR bus else you'd be sending that to the PA. I suggested above to use a separate stereo bus for your recording mix. That's more complicated but could yield better results.

For example:
- Bus 9/10 set to post-fader
- all faders at 0 (nominal). This gives you the same mix as LR but with the ability to make relative adjustments.
- ambient mic channel set to pre-fader so that it is not dependent on the LR mix fader level.

Listen to the 9/10 bus and mix in the ambient mic as needed. Record the 9/10 bus to the USB drive or DAW.

I always un-assign the ambient mic from the LR bus just to be safe.

Sending to bus channel I would need to mix that separate from my main mix. Example: similar to monitors? Pan each bus channel 9&10 left and right? Then route to USB recorder?

Zero faders on bus 9 and 10, not all sends to it?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 03:58:06 PM by Bob Kidd »
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Record
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 04:29:00 PM »

Sending to bus channel I would need to mix that separate from my main mix. Example: similar to monitors? Pan each bus channel 9&10 left and right? Then route to USB recorder?

Zero faders on bus 9 and 10, not all sends to it?

I don't quite understand your last question. You would zero any faders whose channels you want on the recording and -inf any you don't.

Yes, it's similar to mixing monitors but all channels should be post-fader (like an effects bus) so it mirrors your main mix by default. That way if you boost a guitar solo, it gets boosted in the record mix. The negative is that you'll need to set the pans for the record bus as they don't follow the main mix BUT you gain the ability to make relative adjustments to the recording mix AND add in the ambient mics. This would allow you to, for example, boost the electric guitars in the record mix if you have them low in the house mix because the guitar amps themselves are too loud. This is what I mean by a recording mix "relative" to the main mix.

That is my solution to correct unbalanced recordings in situations where the house mix must account for too much stage noise (loud drums, loud electrics). Steve's solution is to put mics in front of the band to pick up the sound coming from the stage. Both are valid, workable solutions.

You can always just set up a stereo mic in the audience and solely record it as suggested previously. It's just not as likely the result will be as good.
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Bob Kidd

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Re: Record
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2016, 04:38:04 PM »

I don't quite understand your last question. You would zero any faders whose channels you want on the recording and -inf any you don't.

Yes, it's similar to mixing monitors but all channels should be post-fader (like an effects bus) so it mirrors your main mix by default. That way if you boost a guitar solo, it gets boosted in the record mix. The negative is that you'll need to set the pans for the record bus as they don't follow the main mix BUT you gain the ability to make relative adjustments to the recording mix AND add in the ambient mics. This would allow you to, for example, boost the electric guitars in the record mix if you have them low in the house mix because the guitar amps themselves are too loud. This is what I mean by a recording mix "relative" to the main mix.

That is my solution to correct unbalanced recordings in situations where the house mix must account for too much stage noise (loud drums, loud electrics). Steve's solution is to put mics in front of the band to pick up the sound coming from the stage. Both are valid, workable solutions.

You can always just set up a stereo mic in the audience and solely record it as suggested previously. It's just not as likely the result will be as good.

Guess what I mean is when I use bus (monitors for example) I need to flip faders to send whatever instruments to bus channel. Separate from main faders
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Record
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2016, 04:41:47 PM »

Guess what I mean is when I use bus (monitors for example) I need to flip faders to send whatever instruments to bus channel. Separate from main faders

Yes then. You'd flip faders but go ahead and set all at unity for your post-fader record bus to start with.

I guess I might should have used the term "send" instead of "fader" previously.
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Bob Kidd

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Re: Record
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2016, 04:54:57 PM »

Yes then. You'd flip faders but go ahead and set all at unity for your post-fader record bus to start with.

I guess I might should have used the term "send" instead of "fader" previously.

If all faders are zeroed how is mix being recorded have balanced mix? Are you saying start at unity then mix fader levels from there?
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Record
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2016, 06:07:20 PM »

If all faders are zeroed how is mix being recorded have balanced mix? Are you saying start at unity then mix fader levels from there?

Yes. Zero = unity. Starting at unity makes the record bus mix equal to the main LR mix.
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Bob Kidd

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Re: Record
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2016, 12:53:21 AM »

Yes. Zero = unity. Starting at unity makes the record bus mix equal to the main LR mix.

Thanks so much for the advice guys! Work out extremely well.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Record
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2016, 12:53:21 AM »


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