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Author Topic: Learning EQ  (Read 5900 times)

John L Nobile

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 11:30:22 AM »

I find that most inputs only need a H/pass, and 1 or 2 eq points. One cut and one boost. I use 4 for kick and more if the instrument or player sounds like crap. If that's the case, I find that all the eq in the world doesn't help.

Know your limits. As Dr McCoy once said (I paraphrase) "Damn it Jim, I'm a Soundman not a Magician!"
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jesseweiss

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 09:31:13 PM »



I think you need to drop back a few steps.  Answer these questions and I have a few ideas on learning resources.

Do you know the difference between a graphic and parametric EQ?

Do you understand the three parameters, gain, freq and Q

How was your math?  If you like math it's easy to look at the screen and understand that the amount of power you are adding or subtracting is equal to the surface area of the shaded regions of the EQ display

Do you know What a compressor actually compresses?  (Of course the answer is power again but I am going for a simple practical answer not an academic one)

Do you know the applications of a.compressor in live sound (It's more tactical than in recording).


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Ok. Yes I know the difference between the two types of EQ. I've done some limited PEQ stuff on the LS9 board I run for my school's theater productions (I'm a teacher).

I do know what the different parameters of PEQ are for. A pro sound guy that does some repair/install work on the theater system taught me the basics. I understand about HPF and LPF and shelving too.

I'm a math teacher and studied through differential equations in college so my math is fine .

I'm newer to compression as our band doesn't use any. I was taught the basics, once again on the LS9, but am still finding my way. As I understand it, compression lowers high levels on a channel above a certain threshold to avoid spikes, etc... You can dial in the threshold, how sharply the compression kicks in (knee), how long it's held (attack?), and makeup gain lost from compressing. By doing this you normalize (that's what it was called editing audio on a PC years ago) the volume, in other words increase the average overall volume while decreasing the range. Did I get that right?

In my OP I was really looking for info, which people kindly linked, on where different instruments usually live so I know where to look and start adjusting.

Otherwise I would think I'd have to play all over the spectrum to work on the kick drum, as an example. Does that make sense?

I'm thinking of getting an XR18 as an x32 is both too pricey for me and the features seem overwhelming, although I've heard it has EQ presets by instrument as a starting point.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2016, 10:40:56 PM »

Jesse, eq presets are mostly worthless.  I've yet to hear one I like with the instrument du jour, today's singer or on whatever system I'm using for that show.

In deciding what eq to apply, ask yourself if there is too much or too little fundamental or too much\too little harmonic content.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 12:27:05 AM »

Jesse, you are way on your way.  You got it all.

If you can get some dynamic tracks to play back into the mixer you just need to play with the eq and compression. 

Less usually ends up more.  Using compression artfully.  You know you have compression down when you reach for the compressor instead of the fader to place the sound in the mix where you want it. 

One of the things that really helped me was the concept of making room for a sound in a mix.  If two sounds occupy the same space spectrally one is going to lose.  If you look at the sound of an instrument you can carve out a small spot from instrument to highlight another.  The kick and the bass are great examples of this.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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jesseweiss

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 07:45:08 AM »

Jesse, you are way on your way.  You got it all.

If you can get some dynamic tracks to play back into the mixer you just need to play with the eq and compression. 

Less usually ends up more.  Using compression artfully.  You know you have compression down when you reach for the compressor instead of the fader to place the sound in the mix where you want it. 

One of the things that really helped me was the concept of making room for a sound in a mix.  If two sounds occupy the same space spectrally one is going to lose.  If you look at the sound of an instrument you can carve out a small spot from instrument to highlight another.  The kick and the bass are great examples of this.

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Thanks. You're last point is really what I'm hoping to accomplish for the band. I feel like there's tons of overlap, particularly with the guitars.

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David Morison

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 08:07:54 AM »

Thanks. You're last point is really what I'm hoping to accomplish for the band. I feel like there's tons of overlap, particularly with the guitars.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Often, less experienced musicians set up their individual sounds on their own, and create what may sound good in that context.
Often, this means fuller low end than is needed once they add together in a band.
So, lowering the amount of lows/low mids can often help avoid everything getting muddy once you have 2 or three of them together, or if the guitar is overlapping the bass.
That's just one example of what you can do with EQ - but as others have said, you couldn't just put that in a preset and apply it to every guitar, as not every player does the same thing, or to the same extent.
HTH,
David.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 09:44:23 AM »


Ok. Yes I know the difference between the two types of EQ. I've done some limited PEQ stuff on the LS9 board I run for my school's theater productions (I'm a teacher).

I do know what the different parameters of PEQ are for. A pro sound guy that does some repair/install work on the theater system taught me the basics. I understand about HPF and LPF and shelving too.

I'm a math teacher and studied through differential equations in college so my math is fine .

I'm newer to compression as our band doesn't use any. I was taught the basics, once again on the LS9, but am still finding my way. As I understand it, compression lowers high levels on a channel above a certain threshold to avoid spikes, etc... You can dial in the threshold, how sharply the compression kicks in (knee), how long it's held (attack?), and makeup gain lost from compressing. By doing this you normalize (that's what it was called editing audio on a PC years ago) the volume, in other words increase the average overall volume while decreasing the range. Did I get that right?

In my OP I was really looking for info, which people kindly linked, on where different instruments usually live so I know where to look and start adjusting.

Otherwise I would think I'd have to play all over the spectrum to work on the kick drum, as an example. Does that make sense?

I'm thinking of getting an XR18 as an x32 is both too pricey for me and the features seem overwhelming, although I've heard it has EQ presets by instrument as a starting point.

Just a slight correction, the attack is how quickly it starts to work/compress. You have the basic description right. Some compressors have more setting then others and some work a lot better than others. I really like the way that the DBX160 works and sounds. I have been playing with the Leisure Compressor in the M32 lately and I think it is similar to the DBX in the way it sounds. The problem is I have to eat up an effects slot to use it and I can’t layer effects slots like I would like to do.

Vocals are one of the things that have a tendency to have too much dynamic range. The soft parts can be too soft and the loud parts too loud. So by compressing the vocal you reduce the overall dynamic range and if done right it helps the vocal to sit in the mix better. I have a tendency to not use the makeup gain in the compressor itself I just bring it up after the compressor so depending on where in the signal chain the compressor is that is where I bring it up. In analog world I used to compress the vocal in a subgroup insert using a DBX160 and I would just bring the subgroup up or down to make it fit into the mix. I don’t think I was ever compressing the vocals to the point where makeup gain on the compressor was where I wanted that to happen.

Compressors and EQ are great tools, use them wrong and you will mess up, use them right and they can really help. I like to say they are like a scalpel in the hands of a skilled doctor they can do great things with it. In the hands of someone who doesn’t know what they are doing it can become a deadly instrument. Over exaggeration but you get the point. Or would that be the edge? ;-)
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jesseweiss

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 09:51:46 AM »

Often, less experienced musicians set up their individual sounds on their own, and create what may sound good in that context.
Often, this means fuller low end than is needed once they add together in a band.
So, lowering the amount of lows/low mids can often help avoid everything getting muddy once you have 2 or three of them together, or if the guitar is overlapping the bass.
That's just one example of what you can do with EQ - but as others have said, you couldn't just put that in a preset and apply it to every guitar, as not every player does the same thing, or to the same extent.
HTH,
David.
That is exactly our issue. We are all very experienced musicians, late 40's, but they all do their sounds on their own and then together there's too much overlap. I'm hoping to try to compensate for that. If course it will only work on places where we all instruments are through the PA.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 10:55:42 AM »

That is exactly our issue. We are all very experienced musicians, late 40's, but they all do their sounds on their own and then together there's too much overlap. I'm hoping to try to compensate for that. If course it will only work on places where we all instruments are through the PA.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


Playing together is one of the items I have noted as a common factor is the best acts we see.  Each individual has a defined role, sonic space from a spectral perspective and an arrangement perspective.  If you have input on the arrangements that is an enviable position.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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jesseweiss

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Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 11:37:48 AM »


Playing together is one of the items I have noted as a common factor is the best acts we see.  Each individual has a defined role, sonic space from a spectral perspective and an arrangement perspective.  If you have input on the arrangements that is an enviable position.
Apparently you don't know my band. Change is hard for them.

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Learning EQ
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 11:37:48 AM »


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