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Author Topic: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler  (Read 15105 times)

Jay Marr

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2016, 02:03:39 PM »

I not against using a full range speaker as long as it is in the horizontal foldback position and not vertical pointng at the audience and spraying HFs all over my stage.

(my opinion)
A loud wedge (behind me on stage), is less annoying to the audience than a 4x12 guitar cab that beams them in their faces because (due to the height of the stage), it's aiming right at their heads.  A wedge is aiming at my ears and shooting over the heads of the audience.  And I have never found that a wedge behind me bleeds or causes feedback issues with my mic.
That being said....I actually prefer the wedge in front of me.

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John Chiara

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2016, 02:13:21 PM »

(my opinion)
A loud wedge (behind me on stage), is less annoying to the audience than a 4x12 guitar cab that beams them in their faces because (due to the height of the stage), it's aiming right at their heads.  A wedge is aiming at my ears and shooting over the heads of the audience.  And I have never found that a wedge behind me bleeds or causes feedback issues with my mic.
That being said....I actually prefer the wedge in front of me.

And helpful if you want to get controlled feedback.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2016, 02:19:04 PM »

Had a guy last week who was running one of those horrible (IMO) Line 6 Amplifi amps.  It was an Americana band but he split between an acoustic (on DI) and an electric.  I put a 609 off by the surround of the 12 to limit that rattiness but he moved it.  So I had to roll off a bunch of top and upper mids to keep it from sounding nasty.  One of the singer's husband is a blues rock guitarist and mentioned that the electric didn't have much cut or bite to it in his opinion.  The alternative would have been something that sounded like a germanium fuzz plugged direct.  I could tell by the stage sound walking up there that he wasn't going for that.  But didn't realize what it sounded like on axis.
I've also dealt with a guitarist who apparently took the "point it at your ears" mantra to heart and uses one of those raise and lean back amp stands for a Deluxe Reverb right behind her.  The result is that she rolls off so much top from things that the sound is pure mud 10 feet from the stage.    Starting with a mic placement between the dust cap and surround adding highs or even 2k makes it ratty, cutting lows makes it sound anemic.
What do others do in these situations?
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John L Nobile

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2016, 02:28:30 PM »


I've also dealt with a guitarist who apparently took the "point it at your ears" mantra to heart and uses one of those raise and lean back amp stands for a Deluxe Reverb right behind her.  The result is that she rolls off so much top from things that the sound is pure mud 10 feet from the stage.    Starting with a mic placement between the dust cap and surround adding highs or even 2k makes it ratty, cutting lows makes it sound anemic.
What do others do in these situations?

I'd try a large diaphragm condensor about 1/2 way between the dust cap and the edge and fine tune it from there. I've had good results with cheap Chinese U87 clones.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2016, 02:36:34 PM »

I'd try a large diaphragm condensor about 1/2 way between the dust cap and the edge and fine tune it from there. I've had good results with cheap Chinese U87 clones.
I've had good results recording with an LDC out from the amp and an off axis dynamic up close.  Mix in the LDC to add bite and the dynamic for fullness.  I actually picked up this technique watching Steve Kimock at the Filmore.  Guess I should try it live as well.  Got another gig coming up when I know the guitarist has a kind of muddy tone from a brown Fender.  Break out the CAD M177, one of the less peaky U87 clones.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2016, 11:24:58 AM »

FWIW, the kemper is NOT a modeler.  It is a profiler.

What it does is "listen" to the input a guitar puts into it, and then listens to the output from a microphone (also attached to the Kemper).  It determines how to re-create this sound transformation as precisely as possible.

In many A/B tests people have failed to determine the "real amp" playback from the profiled playback of the same riff.

Modeling amps attempt to recreate the sound of famous amps by "modeling" the circuits and tubes that are in them with DSP.

So.... what this means is that the Kemper is .... by design .... going to sound best with a flat full range speaker.

Different profiles on the kemper are done with different microphones, and different cabs to get different tones.

The latest version of firmware creates a separation between the cab and the amp when profiling (I think it requires a separate external box to do this).  This allows it to accurately determine the coloring of the amp from the coloring of the cab so when you mix and match cabs with amps, it more accurately re-creates these combinations.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I A/B'd my Kemper against a TSL and a Hughes and Kettner.  To my ears, the Kemper was a better sound all the way around.  These tests were done with the amps using their associated 4x12 cabs and my Kemper using a single DSR112.  I suspect that had I been using 2 DSR112's things would have been even more lop-sided.

People that use the kemper with a guitar cab have to tweak their profiles and eq to "un color" the sound again.  I have a VHT 2x12 cab still from my old tube amp rig.  I think it sounds like crap with the Kemper and a power amp.  The DSR112 is a vast improvement.
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Jay Marr

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2016, 11:30:19 AM »

FWIW, the kemper is NOT a modeler.  It is a profiler.

For what it's worth, the Fractal units are both a modeler and a profiler.
(I'm just messing with you Scott....I like both Kemper and Fractal products).

I agree on all fronts about using an FRFR instead of a guitar cab.  Once you use the FRFR for a while, you end up like a cab less and less.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2016, 01:40:41 PM »

(my opinion)
A loud wedge (behind me on stage), is less annoying to the audience than a 4x12 guitar cab that beams them in their faces because (due to the height of the stage), it's aiming right at their heads.  A wedge is aiming at my ears and shooting over the heads of the audience.  And I have never found that a wedge behind me bleeds or causes feedback issues with my mic.
That being said....I actually prefer the wedge in front of me.

Behind you is still "foldback" position for the purposes of my statement.  What I basically don't want is guy coming in with a powered speaker and sitting it on a stand or chair pointed at the audience or worse yet;on the floor pointed at their knees and the audience.

Seems unlikely to happen based on common sense but so does someone sitting a small combo on the floor a foot behind them and pointed at their knees and we see that all the time.

 As someone who has been playing guitar for 39 years, I say with great confidence that you can never under estimate the stupidity of guitar players or their ability to put out horrendous tones on a stage.

As modelers become more popular and drop in price they will increasing become more common place among players who don't understand how to properly use them and they will become a thorn in every sound guy's side.



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Kemper Watson

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2016, 01:48:15 PM »

FWIW, the kemper is NOT a modeler.  It is a profiler.



I am??
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Scott Bolt

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2016, 02:43:42 PM »

For what it's worth, the Fractal units are both a modeler and a profiler.
(I'm just messing with you Scott....I like both Kemper and Fractal products).

I agree on all fronts about using an FRFR instead of a guitar cab.  Once you use the FRFR for a while, you end up like a cab less and less.
Yea, I was thinking that as I was typing it.  Fractal uses impulse responses as well as modeling DSP.  It is a hybrid approach.  For anyone that has played the AXE II FX, it is pretty clear that they have a decent tone to them, so whatever they have in there, it is making something good come out front  ;)

I think that the new DSP approach is destined to over-take the tube amp in most cases.  Having been a die hard tube amp enthusiast (VHT Pittbull, 4x12 and 2x12 cabs), I have become a complete convert.
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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2016, 02:43:42 PM »


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