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Author Topic: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler  (Read 15104 times)

Mike Pyle

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 11:31:07 AM »

The RCF NX12SMA has been very popular for guitar amp modeling systems.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016, 02:37:52 PM »

I have to confess that I don't understand the use of full frequency response speakers with modelers.  Unless you're running an acoustic guitar and want the pick clack or string squeaks.  Most guitar amps die off pretty quickly at 5k and that is the sound that the modelers are trying to reproduce.  There isn't any aspect of typical electric guitar sound that requires extended frequency response (imitating John Cippolina excepted ;)
I remember a conversation with the brain at Muse Research (a pretty good guitar player in his own right) about how the unnatural fizz in a Vox Tonelab (which I had played with having found it to be better than various Roland or DigiTech options) was the result of aliasing of the distortion models by the DACs used in those boxes.  AxeFx and Kemper followed Muse's lead using better DACs and filter schemes.  But the upshot is that you don't want any HF extension.
Putting a guitar speaker in a wedge (as Jeff Beck did for years) or leaning a Bogner Cube back on something would seem to provide the best sound.
Maybe having HF lets the guitarist hear how fizzy it sounds in the direct out that is going though the PA.  Which would tend to lead the player to tuning it a more muddy sound that doesn't fit in the mix as well.
The whole thing sounds like a dog chasing it's tail to me.
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David Buckley

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016, 04:46:46 PM »

I have to confess that I don't understand the use of full frequency response speakers with modelers.
The modeler isn't necessarily delivering any audio with content above a few KHz.  But by using a full frequency response speaker, that removes the colouration of a 4x12.  Of course, one may choose to have a 4x12 colour added in the modeler, but then its an artistic choice, rather than a limitation (or feature!) forced by the choice of the actual speaker.
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Jay Marr

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016, 09:26:19 PM »

I have to confess that I don't understand the use of full frequency response speakers with modelers.  Unless you're running an acoustic guitar and want the pick clack or string squeaks.  Most guitar amps die off pretty quickly at 5k and that is the sound that the modelers are trying to reproduce.  There isn't any aspect of typical electric guitar sound that requires extended frequency response (imitating John Cippolina excepted ;)
I remember a conversation with the brain at Muse Research (a pretty good guitar player in his own right) about how the unnatural fizz in a Vox Tonelab (which I had played with having found it to be better than various Roland or DigiTech options) was the result of aliasing of the distortion models by the DACs used in those boxes.  AxeFx and Kemper followed Muse's lead using better DACs and filter schemes.  But the upshot is that you don't want any HF extension.
Putting a guitar speaker in a wedge (as Jeff Beck did for years) or leaning a Bogner Cube back on something would seem to provide the best sound.
Maybe having HF lets the guitarist hear how fizzy it sounds in the direct out that is going though the PA.  Which would tend to lead the player to tuning it a more muddy sound that doesn't fit in the mix as well.
The whole thing sounds like a dog chasing it's tail to me.

I use the Fractal with the RCF NX12ma, Atomic CLR and XiTone 1x12 wedge.   All of those are full range and sound excellent.  If you want tighter dispersion....go with the RCF.

To comment on why to use a PA speaker....it's so that you are dialed in the exact way you will be heard through the PA.
If my Fractal sounds excellent though any of those wedges (which are very close to flat response), then I know it is the best starting point to be sent directly to FOH.  I have yet to plug into any PA and not hear my Fractal sound close to what it does though my speaker.  But when I've mic'd a guitar cab, the sound through FOH is sometimes VERY different.  That is the logic as to why to us a FRFR speaker for monitoring (and dialing in) a Fractal or Kemper....

Now that I've been using this set up for years, going back to a guitar cab doesn't sound good to me.  To dramatic of a sound change when you move off axis....on and there is the factor that a guitar cab is sending sound to the back of my knees....where my powered PA wedge is sending it to my ears.
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Mike Pyle

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2016, 12:46:04 AM »

I do have customers that are using DXR10s with modelers, apparently with success.
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Mike Pyle  Audiopyle Sound  707-315-6204
Dealer For: JBL, Soundcraft, Crown, dbx, AKG, Yorkville, EV, QSC, RCF, FBT, Danley Sound Labs, Meyer Sound, Fulcrum Acoustic, Tannoy, Lab Gruppen, Powersoft, Linea Research, EAW, Allen & Heath, Ashly, APB, Audix, One Systems, Presonus, K&M, Ultimate, Global Truss, Intellistage, SKB, Gator, Radial Engineering, Turbosound, Midas, dB Technologies, American DJ, Odyssey, ProCo, Rapco, CBI, Elation, Mipro, Chauvet, Blizzard, Shure, Whirlwind, Bassboss, Yamaha, Line 6, Behringer, On-Stage, more...

Scott Olewiler

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2016, 06:54:46 AM »

there is the factor that a guitar cab is sending sound to the back of my knees....where my powered PA wedge is sending it to my ears.

Don't point it at your knees. Point it at your ears. 

I also use a modeler. I use a Roland cube amp (pointed at my ears, geez!) with a mic in front of it and what comes out of the PA sounds exactly like what is coming out of the amp. Of course that would be true of any amp.  Poor placement of amps/cabs is the reason guitarists don't hear the same thing that is coming out of the amp, not some inherent flaw in guitar cabinets.
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John L Nobile

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2016, 09:52:40 AM »

Don't point it at your knees. Point it at your ears. 


+1k. Which is a lot of the freq you hear out front when amps are pointing at your knees.

We have a Queen tribute band in this week and the guitar player is incredible. A real pleasure to see. But his tone is thin and I can't add enough lo end to it to get above his stage bleed.
You can pretty much tell what kind of sound you're going to get out front by how the amps are positioned. I really like the idea of a Kemper etc through a PA box as long as it's not on the floor.
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Jay Marr

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2016, 12:08:00 PM »

Don't point it at your knees. Point it at your ears. 

I also use a modeler. I use a Roland cube amp (pointed at my ears, geez!) with a mic in front of it and what comes out of the PA sounds exactly like what is coming out of the amp. Of course that would be true of any amp.  Poor placement of amps/cabs is the reason guitarists don't hear the same thing that is coming out of the amp, not some inherent flaw in guitar cabinets.

Not very easy to do with my 4x12 cab on wheels....

Agreed that poor mic placement is a big cause of inconsistent sound coming from the PA.   That's why I eliminate that variable by using the Fractal and running direct to FOH.

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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2016, 12:16:18 PM »

Not very easy to do with my 4x12 cab on wheels....

Agreed that poor mic placement is a big cause of inconsistent sound coming from the PA.   That's why I eliminate that variable by using the Fractal and running direct to FOH.

We do the same. Guitar player uses Fractal AX8 direct into PA and he monitors using iem - sounds fantastic and makes my job very easy!
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2016, 01:14:28 PM »

I not against using a full range speaker as long as it is in the horizontal foldback position and not vertical pointng at the audience and spraying HFs all over my stage.
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Re: yamaha dxr10 and kemper profiler
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2016, 01:14:28 PM »


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