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Author Topic: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines  (Read 5389 times)

Pete Erskine

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Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« on: July 18, 2016, 06:28:45 PM »

Adjacent user level control - sometimes your neighbor's voice is too loud in your headset when using the same party lines.  This allows you to mix your PL and hear less of them.


http://www.bestaudio.com/s/User-levels-in-party-lines.jpg
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Pete Erskine
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Neil White

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 04:49:15 AM »

Adjacent user level control - sometimes your neighbor's voice is too loud in your headset when using the same party lines.  This allows you to mix your PL and hear less of them.

Hi Pete,

I don't have any hardware available to test this, but how does the Dim XP command behave if you select the source and destination as panels? Does it affect all audio between those panels both conference and point to point? If it does, maybe a logic function could be used to apply the dimming to the relevant keys on each panel or could be left as a virtual always function to dim everything between those two users?

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Pete Erskine

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 12:09:37 PM »

Hi Pete,

I don't have any hardware available to test this, but how does the Dim XP command behave if you select the source and destination as panels? Does it affect all audio between those panels both conference and point to point? If it does, maybe a logic function could be used to apply the dimming to the relevant keys on each panel or could be left as a virtual always function to dim everything between those two users?

It only affects P-P audio not Party lines.  That was my first solution.  Years ago there was a bug in the software that let any P-P set the level of that person on a panel.  If they were part of a conference, you could turn down (or off) the P-P which would affect their foice in the Party line.  Seemed useful until someone missed a cue.

A simple change in the way room codes work would also solve this issue.  Now if two panels are in the same room code, each other's audio is removed from conference to prevent feedback when using Conf with open mics and speakers.  If that On/Off function was replaced with a dB dim selection it would enhance both functions.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 12:26:49 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Pete Erskine
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2016, 12:50:10 PM »

I think I have a better solution.  The above method is not good since it lets each panel user hear everything that the other user is saying - even to the "private" P-P.

Say that I am the user A who wants to turn down the level of a user B in a party line i Have on my panel.  A listen key on my panel to the user B will take precedence over user B's audio in the Party line with out affecting the rest of the PL.

I create a simple logic command that presses a momentary key on my panel that listens to user B.  Name this "VOL B".  Now I drag this logic function onto every PL on user B's panel that I want to mix.  The reason for the logic is that the remote key command takes a while to program and this way i do it only once.  I also make the Remote key press the Listen AND change text to "VOL B ON".

Just tested it an it' great.  Care needs to be done that the volume is not turned off all the way for obvious reasons.
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Neil White

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2016, 12:56:48 PM »

I think I have a better solution.  The above method is not good since it lets each panel user hear everything that the other user is saying - even to the "private" P-P.

Say that I am the user A who wants to turn down the level of a user B in a party line i Have on my panel.  A listen key on my panel to the user B will take precedence over user B's audio in the Party line with out affecting the rest of the PL.

Cool, I was just about to ask if a Listen Key behaved the same as a P-P call in terms of level control precedence, but the combination of that and the logic is a neat trick. I guess it can be tucked away on a shift page and shouldn't need too much adjusting once the users settle down.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 01:22:26 PM »

Cool, I was just about to ask if a Listen Key behaved the same as a P-P call in terms of level control precedence, but the combination of that and the logic is a neat trick. I guess it can be tucked away on a shift page and shouldn't need too much adjusting once the users settle down.

P-P doesn't seem to have precedence over level in a conf.  That was an old "bug" but listen still does.

Logic on each button avoids the problem of just having a listen button only on your panel and when it is on the listenee's sidetone is turned on and mic on LED flashes which always bothers a user.  Could be the NSA for all they know.

Back to this method and even better, since they already have the P-P on the panel any listen key to the same panel will track the volume.  I put the momentary listen key on a virtual button and had the logic press it.  Volume of the P-P now tracks the level on the hidden listen key.  AND the volume on the P-P is what you set anyway when you get calls from them.

Side note:  Putting a listen to a 4-wire or Input port which is part of a party line on your panel will have the same control.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 02:29:04 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Neil White

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 03:09:56 PM »

I put the momentary listen key on a virtual button and had the logic press it.  Volume of the P-P now tracks the level on the hidden listen key.  AND the volume on the P-P is what you set anyway when you get calls from them.

That looks much improved from the initial technique, and easier to understand for the user.

The virtual key is not something I've seen used before, are there any other typical applications for the virtual keys?
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2016, 03:25:29 PM »

That looks much improved from the initial technique, and easier to understand for the user.

The virtual key is not something I've seen used before, are there any other typical applications for the virtual keys?

See http://www.bestaudio.com/s/Riedel-radio-interfaceSM.jpg

This is a method for interfacing two Radios, 1 for TX and 1 for RX into Artist.   Separate radios are used to have a separate TX combiner and RX DA.  When the Simplex Radio is in TX mode the RX must be muted so you don't get yourself back into the PL.

on a 4-wire port a virtual key with a conference call on it can connect that port to the conference and disconnect it easily.

I also use Virtual keys to park a button when not needed on a panel.
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Neil White

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2016, 04:38:01 PM »

This is a method for interfacing two Radios, 1 for TX and 1 for RX into Artist.   Separate radios are used to have a separate TX combiner and RX DA.  When the Simplex Radio is in TX mode the RX must be muted so you don't get yourself back into the PL.

That looks like it might be a little more programming heavy than the 4w muting port method, but would have a significant reduction in port count on a show with lots of simplex radios.

Are you using a different technique for the FM Talk To Ears? It looks like a pair of normal conferences rather than an IFB?
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 07:57:39 PM »

That looks like it might be a little more programming heavy than the 4w muting port method, but would have a significant reduction in port count on a show with lots of simplex radios.

Definitely a better simplex muting method.  Detailed on page in downloads at Simplex muting method  Radauan cam up with it when he was in Soche with over 50 simplex radios.

Are you using a different technique for the FM Talk To Ears? It looks like a pair of normal conferences rather than an IFB?

One is a listen only conf of the FM Audio coming back from audio and the other is a full conference talking only to the monitor mixer to mix and duck.  That way they all hear each other while cuing.  All IFB ducking is done by the audio Monitor mixer, not by the matrix.

Here is a full write up on the better Level control for your adjacent party line user.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 12:33:15 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Pete Erskine
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Re: Mixing your neighbors audio in common party-lines
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 07:57:39 PM »


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