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Author Topic: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP  (Read 5576 times)

Dustin Corey

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2016, 11:25:47 am »

Are you moving into an existing building, or are you building from the ground up? If it's a new build, your architect would likely have some recommendations of a consultant, or an integrator in your area that has a good reputation.

Last thing, be sure to pay attention to acoustic treatment, and the acoustic properties of your new space. Getting the room sounding right before you put the PA in will make a huge difference in your overall satisfaction of the new digs.

It's an existing facility. The previous owners didn't have music, but only used the audio system for spoken word. We will need quite a bite more juice for the contemporary worship style.

I was planning to get in the building before investigating the acoustic treatment. We have a very tight/non existent time for reconfiguration of the sanctuary. We will probably be running a temporary rig in the sanctuary while the system is being installed.

Thanks again!
Dusitn
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2016, 04:19:46 pm »

Last thing First thing, be sure to pay attention to acoustic treatment, and the acoustic properties of your new space. Getting the room sounding right before you put the PA in will make a huge difference in your overall satisfaction of the new digs.

FTFY.

Getting the acoustics correct will do more for the quality of sound in your space than any amount of equipment at any price. More equipment isn't a good solution for bad acoustics.

A space that has favorable acoustics for your typical program material will make it easier and cheaper to design and install the sound system, and will make it far, far easier to operate. It will be more enjoyable for your performers and your audience.

Spending time and money to get the room design right will be money well spent. Since the sound system is tailored to the acoustics of the room, not the other way around, you want to focus on acoustics first. There's a good chance the overall project will be cheaper as the sound system and installation costs may be lower.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2016, 05:19:38 pm »

F
A space that has favorable acoustics for your typical program material will make it easier and cheaper to design and install the sound system, and will make it far, far easier to operate. It will be more enjoyable for your performers and your audience.


That is something that is VERY OFTEN overlooked.

Different styes/usages require different types of acoustics.

For example Organ rooms are typically terrible for speech.

Is this mainly live band with video screens or is there a lot of congregational singing?

The type of reflections make a BIG difference on how the audience "feels" in the room.

This has almost nothing to do with the sound system and EVERYTHING to do with the natural acoustics in the room.

Getting somebody to address that part can make a big deal.

Do you need absorption or diffusion or both?  Very different types of acoustic treatments that produce different results.

Putting a sound system in is easy.  Doing a PROPER acoustic job requires a totally different skill set than most "installers" have.

Anybody you look at should address the acoustics for YOUR needs.

The room may be fine-but without knowing details, there is NO way to even begin a guess.
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Ivan Beaver
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Justin Bartlett

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 12:46:10 am »

Good Morning,

My church has started the process of moving to a larger facility. I'm trying to do things right by hiring an audio professional to help with system design.

  • ~400 members
  • Need complete new audio system from IO/Mixer/Amps/Speakers for a large auditorium with balcony and vaulted ceilings.
  • Contemporary worship with need for loud sound with good headroom and heavy LF for youth events.


In the process of settling on scope and budget, the consultant offered to provide system tuning for free if we purchased a BiAmp Nexia / Tesira Forte (DSP) from them for ~$2,300. While the exact model wasn't specified in the scope document, this whole line of products seems to be for smaller classrooms and teleconferencing? I don't know much about the DSP hardware world, the amps and mixer we use today have provided enough processing for us. Is this a good recommendation, or are we in the wrong park?

Also, what should I expect for consulting prices for loudspeaker recommendation including model numbers/quantity/fly points/ and mounting angles/heights with Power and infrastructure requirements of the recommended design? Cost per hour? Percentage of project total? This is my first time going through this and want to make sure everything is tracking properly.

Thanks!

Unlike some others, I'm not convinced that a $2,300 DSP is overkill for a 400-seat room, depending on what the PA is.

But that's the thing - trying to sell you a DSP before you decide on a PA is putting the cart before the horse and is a serious red flag, in my opinion.

I have a feeling I may know who this consultant is...
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 07:30:57 am »

Unlike some others, I'm not convinced that a $2,300 DSP is overkill for a 400-seat room, depending on what the PA is.

But that's the thing - trying to sell you a DSP before you decide on a PA is putting the cart before the horse and is a serious red flag, in my opinion.

I have a feeling I may know who this consultant is...
True.  Without knowing what the requirements of the DSP are-it is impossible to say whether or not it is needed.

There may be some special reason-that we are not aware of.

As usual-the number of seats is not a good indicator of what the loudspeaker system needs to be.  It is the layout-type of usage and other factors that determine that.

When I am designing a system, the loudspeaker system is first, then followed by what amps are needed.

THEN AND ONLY THEN do I consider how large of a DSP I need.

The DSP almost never comes first-unless there is a some specific needed.

Of course knowing that need is VERY important.
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Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Samuel Rees

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 08:56:17 am »

Unlike some others, I'm not convinced that a $2,300 DSP is overkill for a 400-seat room, depending on what the PA is.

But that's the thing - trying to sell you a DSP before you decide on a PA is putting the cart before the horse and is a serious red flag, in my opinion.

I have a feeling I may know who this consultant is...

I've got a LG Lake LM44 for FOH a Dolby Lake 8x8 for monitors in a local 250 cap room. It's a bit of a luxury, but perfectly appropriate and costs way more than 2,300! This could be totally reasonable, or not, I wouldn't want to say just based on '400 seats'.
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Dustin Corey

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 11:15:36 am »

I'm talking with several other companies now which is helping me sort through the various options. Thanks for everyone's wiliness to help.
The room will seat 600 once the balcony is opened. Note, the balcony was out of scope for the initial discussion with this consultant, but now we are approved to do it all at once.
The stage will be extended out, and the first 2 or 3 rows will be removed. (photo attached of current configuration).

I've got a LG Lake LM44 for FOH a Dolby Lake 8x8 for monitors in a local 250 cap room. It's a bit of a luxury, but perfectly appropriate and costs way more than 2,300! This could be totally reasonable, or not, I wouldn't want to say just based on '400 seats'.

I'm a bit confused by the connections on the back of the BiAmp Nexia / Tesira Forte, and by reading the user manual for each of the models. Is this for live sound or teleconferencing? How would I connect it up without using Dante? The LM44 you mentioned at least has XLR connections. Like I said, I'm new to hardware DSP, so I might be missing something here.

Dustin

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Samuel Rees

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2016, 11:22:05 am »

I'm talking with several other companies now which is helping me sort through the various options. Thanks for everyone's wiliness to help.
The room will seat 600 once the balcony is opened. Note, the balcony was out of scope for the initial discussion with this consultant, but now we are approved to do it all at once.
The stage will be extended out, and the first 2 or 3 rows will be removed. (photo attached of current configuration).

I'm a bit confused by the connections on the back of the BiAmp Nexia / Tesira Forte, and by reading the user manual for each of the models. Is this for live sound or teleconferencing? How would I connect it up without using Dante? The LM44 you mentioned at least has XLR connections. Like I said, I'm new to hardware DSP, so I might be missing something here.

Dustin

I don't know a thing about the processor in question.

The Lakes are traditional live sound system processors. LM 44 has analog, AES, and Dante IO options, and performs traditional functions like crossovers, EQ, delay, limiting, and etc.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2016, 01:02:19 pm »

The Biamp processors have teleconferencing abilities in some models.  They are perfectly appropriate for install work.  The nexia SP is specifically for live/installed sound speaker processing. 

What is challenging for some people is that they are completely configurable with drag and drop DSP blocks.  So you have to actually know how you want the signal flow to go.   That said, if you want 3 limiters in a row for the Ivan Beaver (Tm) method of speaker protection, that's no problem. 


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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Audio Consultant Selling me a DSP
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 03:07:34 pm »


That said, if you want 3 limiters in a row for the Ivan Beaver (Tm) method of speaker protection, that's no problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good luck getting long attack times (>1sec) out of the nexia limiters.... At least the last time I used them...


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