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Author Topic: your characterizations of Si PERFORMER 3 and QU-32 mixes - ie, *AUDIO ONLY*  (Read 29569 times)

Brian McMahan

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IEM use?  Ahhhh.... Well then, I'm not a monitor mixerperson but I can tell you what I see come with bands that carry their own stuff.

Bus & trailer shows - a fair bit of X32/M32, still see some Yammy LS9 and seeing QL/CL 1/3 picking up steam.  Midas Pro2C pairs (there's a popular rental package out of Nashvegas).  AVID SC48 are still popular.  I think I've seen 1 or 2 Soundcraft Si series; Vi is gaining in popularity.

Band In A Van w/trailer - hands down the X32/M32R.  I saw an 01v96 rig w/ADAT i/o and AirFader recently.  The Si that rack mounts is showing up more, too.  We still see a Presonus once in a while.  Everything in 1 rack: mixer, RF receivers, IEM transmitters, patch bay, belt pack storage, splitter & tails.

Hope this helps.

My point about "better, more $$$" is that if you're genuinely hearing things you don't like, the amount of money it takes to fix that is likely to be considerable.  That's why my analogue days observation about perceived sound quality tending to move up with both increased price and feature set.  It's both real (higher design budget) and potentially (if subtly) biased.  If you need better sonic performance it comes with a price tag (think "wireless mics" for a parallel).

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

This is super helpful, Tim.  Thank you.

In the past, rentability was not a concern for me.  It's a big element of this purchase though.  In that sense, the X32's (continued) dominance seems clear, especially given the market I'm in.  And I am still considering it.

I totally hear you re overall cost vs pricing, product positioning, and sales realities.  No illusions re the type of compromises I'm faced with... just trying to minimize the sting.  I'm excited to be here, nonetheless. 


Brian

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« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 05:59:22 PM by Brian McMahan »
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Brian McMahan

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Quote from: Branimir Bozak link=topic=159454.msg1464798#msg1464798 date=
I use my Expression for small clubs to open air concerts and I'm not ashamed, the Si does not sound cheap and summing is quite good. Yesterday I used my Si on an festival where they had CL5 at the FOH... It's not on par, but it's not a pushover either. Can't say the same for QU and X32.

Bold.  I dig it.

Quote from: Branimir Bozak link=topic=159454.msg1464798#msg1464798 date=
SI pros:
* sound
* lexicon fx
* excellent GEQ
* very good on channel EQ
* very good compressor

Thanks.  I appreciate you breaking these elements down.

Quote from: Branimir Bozak link=topic=159454.msg1464798#msg1464798 date=
Soundcraft promised to release an ipad and android app for personal monitoring in the near future (actually they said by the end of the month). The QU's software and app is constantly being developed, cannot say that for Soundcraft.

Yeah.  I find this to be a pretty serious issue.  Not in terms of my primary workflow, but in terms of others'...

Quote from: Branimir Bozak link=topic=159454.msg1464798#msg1464798 date=
All the important stuff is visible off the screen:
The EQ
The compression
The gate
The pan, gain and HPF...

BTW I even like the Expression's led metering, it's a bit more visible than the Impact/Performer's scribble strips.

This last part is a comment I've not heard yet.  Would you mind elaborating, Branimir?

Thanks again for sharing.


Brian

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« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 04:49:14 PM by Brian McMahan »
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Bob Leonard

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Brian,
The best thing you could do is to go to the Soundcraft web site, download, and look at the user manuals. Start with the Expression, then look at the Performer.

As for "bugs" as mentioned above, I find that to be a certain amount of horse shit. There have been a few lockups reported in the past, but the issues were fixed long ago. There is supposed to be a new release for the app coming very soon, maybe even tomorrow. On the other hand, if it was my intent to mix with an app I wouldn't own both an Expression (for sale at $1250), and a Performer. The Soundcraft app is sufficient enough to work the most common tasks required if tuning the mix from the seats. After that I work behind the board and the app is meaningless.

The new app should be able to provide separate control for up to 10 Ipads, etc. at the same time if I remember correctly.

Monitor mixes, or any other type of group need are handled easily with the dedicated MIX feature (button). There are 14 of them on the Expression and Performer, plus 4 matrix, and on the performer, VCA. There are 16 available outputs on the so 8-10 monitor mixes is a no brainer.

Look under products and the download for each product is on the product page.

http://www.soundcraft.com/

 
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Brian McMahan

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The best thing you could do is to go to the Soundcraft web site, download, and look at the user manuals. Start with the Expression, then look at the Performer.

One step ahead of you, Bob.  Been sifting through the Si user manuals all week. 

Thanks again...


Brian

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Branimir Bozak

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Bold.  I dig it.
I had a scene set up already, parallel compression of the drum subgroup too, also I like the predictability of the Lexicons, and since I use my own microphones for almost all the input list, the gain settings and eq per channel are usually spot on with the drumkit, and in the end the soundcheck lasted 15mins. Also I have parallels of the vocal lines, and since the monitoring was from FOH, it was practical for me.
Soundcheck started at 14:55, I was already at the hotel eating lunch at 15:20 :)

The CL5 is a better sounding console, no question about it, but to have it set up as I like and am most efficient, it would take too much time, I already spent 5 hours in the van, and looking forward to a fast soundcheck and couple of hours of rest during the day... Also the band I work with is not super fancy sounding pop with a lot of details, it's a straightforward 5 piece that plays punk rock in slightly higher tempo. A better board would not make better musicians out of them, but if they played a bit better, even my Si would sound better :)
Quote
This last part is a comment I've not heard yet.  Would you mind elaborating, Branimir?
The Performer and the Impact have "scribble scripts" above channel strips, which are used for labeling the channels and also for metering.
The Expression has no lcd screen per channel for labeling and channel metering is done via leds. The led's showing gain reduction, gate and basic channel metering is a bit more visible than the scribble script's LCD way of giving the same information. At least for me, or maybe I'm just accustomed to the Expression more.

As for "bugs" as mentioned above, I find that to be a certain amount of horse shit. There have been a few lockups reported in the past, but the issues were fixed long ago.
While Soundcraft promised to rectify the problem with the boards not remembering pre/post dynamic settings on channels 11,21,31 in the new firmware, there is still the problem with mute groups. The current build of the console's firmware is unable to remember the state of the mute groups within your scene. That means, if you mute the channels using mute groups, and save the scene, upon recalling the same scene, all the channels come up ON, instead muted via mute groups.
Not to mention random lockups of fx return faders when being used in the first layer, yesterday during the soundcheck I was using GEQ on the mono output, and all the sudden faders started moving by themselves, killing 630 and 800hz in the process... Maybe it was due to sun directly hitting the console? The board performed flawlessly in the evening but everytime I boot it up, I am afraid of some new glitch coming up.
Quote
The Soundcraft app is sufficient enough to work the most common tasks required if tuning the mix from the seats.
I agree, while not being able to mute the FX returns within the app, use the mute groups, or change the parameters of any of the FX, the app is still useful most of the time... ;)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:21:33 AM by Branimir Bozak »
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Alex Rigodanzo

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This is super helpful, Tim.  Thank you.

In the past, rentability was not a concern for me.  It's a big element of this purchase though. In that sense, the X32's (continued) dominance seems clear, especially given the market I'm in.  And I am still considering it.

I totally hear you re overall cost vs pricing, product positioning, and sales realities.  No illusions re the type of compromises I'm faced with... just trying to minimize the sting.  I'm excited to be here, nonetheless. 


Brian

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Brian, if you're still considering the X32, I would recommend heading over to the B website where there is a forum dedicated to the X32 filled with excellent info.

http://forum.music-group.com/forumdisplay.php?118-X32-Family

disclaimer: I am a completely satisfied X32 owner 8) with zero experience on any other digital consoles save for one festival gig where I got to drive an SC48
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Ken Braziel

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There is supposed to be a new release for the app coming very soon, maybe even tomorrow.

Oh please be true, REALLY hoping they re-thought some of the klunky stuff like having the HiPass filter in a different sub-area from the rest of the PEQ for a given channel...

Ideally I'd love to have a customizable layout like Mackie did with the DL series, I love being able to set up an on-screen workspace based on the actual needs of the current show or act (I've used the DL on several small festival stages recently, so easy to just put the necessary faders on the screen and NOTHING ELSE so I can hand the iPad to someone else & take a break). If they can pull off an in-app RTA I'll be in heaven!
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Dave Garoutte

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Oh please be true, REALLY hoping they re-thought some of the klunky stuff like having the HiPass filter in a different sub-area from the rest of the PEQ for a given channel...

The ViSi app sort of replicates the console.  The HPF in on the input strip, not the PEQ panel.
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Tim McCulloch

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The ViSi app sort of replicates the console.  The HPF in on the input strip, not the PEQ panel.

Which is also the case with several other digital mixers and replicates the physical layout of most Ye Olde Analogue® consoles of decades past.
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Ken Braziel

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The ViSi app sort of replicates the console.  The HPF in on the input strip, not the PEQ panel.

I totally understand WHY they did it, but from a user's standpoint it kinda sucks.

schMackie's DL interface has it on the same page, and the hipass graphic overlays the rest of the GEQ. Most of the time the first thing I'm going to adjust on a channel is the HiPass, so it's an extra click in the interface.

My day-job involves software that runs printing operations, one of my main tasks is figuring out how to make the user's job faster, which almost always means "how do we do this with less clicks?"
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