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[Paul Walters]

Hello all,

I have long enjoyed reading here and have been a member for years. I buy quite a bit of gear through the Marketplace subforum, and I even post occasionally. This forum has been a superb resource for me, and I have learned a good amount from your posts (almost as much as I've learned from my own hands-on experience).

I have been bringing in a decent amount of money doing gigs freelance for the last few years, and last fall I endeavored to add more legitimacy to my freelance operations by finding a company name and developing a web presence. A significant portion of my events are live music events for 300-500 persons and involve subcontracting and cross-renting audio and lighting gear; the smaller events (150 or less in attendance) I can cover with my personal rig.

This business plan has been working well for me; my buddy owns a local sound company and I cross-rent his 850 rig fairly often, and due to the nature of the business where personal connections get gigs, I am able to send money his way by doing gigs that would otherwise go to a wedding dj (a large percentage of my events are related to my college and until recently they would hire a wedding dj's rig to try to cover any type of live music event off campus with miserable results). I have been expanding my inventory with the goal of being able to cover events of up to 300 people by myself; any more than this and I would rather cross-rent gear, as storage and transportation then become issues.

As I am in college, I am able to invest a larger percentage of my income into gear. I do not at this point intend to continue to invest in equipment when I have my small rig completed; my company is strictly a side job at this point. It adds legitimacy to my operation and customers treat me with more respect than I used to get when I was "that 20 year old kid with the PA."

This past fall I applied for a temporary position with a summer camp that is based out of the southeast. Had I received the position, I would have been the FOH and monitor engineer for one of five touring teams, each in a location for several days at a time running a large-scale production for 500-1500 high-school age kids. Unfortunately, I did not get this position as I was only one of many applicants. I feel that I am very well qualified for this position and their choice of someone else was not due to any want of competence on my part.

However, this position would have enabled me to utilize technologies I currently do not have ready access to. My biggest shows use the aforementioned KF850 rig (groundstacked), and thus I have no experience flying loudspeaker arrays. The camp position would have allowed me access to a small (16 boxes) Nexo or EV line array, thereby allowing me to learn and experiment with line arrays and the accompanying software. I also do not have access to SMAART or any such technology other than the RTA that I use on a regular basis; SMAART would have been a daily feature in that job. There are many aspects of large scale productions that I would like to learn, and anything I can learn about lighting and video would be a bonus.

As a student, I am very much in need of a summer job, and while I have an almost guaranteed position at the Guitar Center back home, I also have the option of living in Chicago with my uncle for the summer. My first thought was to compile a list of Chicago sound companies and start making phone calls, but I am not sure what the etiquette in the industry is for this sort of thing. Obviously personal connections are key, and I don't have any in that area, other than my cousin's job as writer/producer at CBS, which could land any variety of TV or radio internships, but not live production jobs.

Do you have any starting points or suggestions? I realize anything I could get for a summer job (if I could get one) would involve cleaning the warehouse, rolling cases, and fixing cables, but I make all my own cables so that's not a problem. 

I am just hoping to get a head start on the post-graduation job hunt and start making connections in the area (industry and geographic) that I would like to work in following graduation.

In case anyone is wondering, I am also interested in the same sort of internship or summer job in the area in which I live and attend school currently, but I am waiting to hear back on openings.

Thanks for any advice which you can provide!

[Nick Pires]

So two parts of the job would have been flying line arrays and SMAART. Both of which you say you've never done, but you don't feel your not being hired had to do with a lack of qualifications/experience?

[Paul Walters]

Correct. Because this is a camp for high-schoolers, they have a few weeks of training in May (when all the high-school kids are still in school) before the program starts. They repeatedly mentioned that many of their employees have been recording students with absolutely no live audio experience prior to being hired, and others were church audio volunteers with no system setup or tuning experience.
In fact, they felt I was sufficiently qualified for the job when they asked me how many hours I have on an M7 (I mixed on one back in high school every month at my church, I've done the training course, and I cross-rent one for bigger shows), and satisfied with my answer, they moved on to other aspects of the job (how good are you at volleyball? Me: very).
No, the use of line array software and SMAART are two minor aspects of the job that I would have learned in the course of the three weeks of pre-tour training, and given my regular usage of an RTA and my limited knowledge of a variety of line array rigs (none of which I have had access to, all of which I've read the manuals for) I feel I am extremely proficient, especially when compared with someone with a recording or church audio background learning concert sound from the ground up in the course of two weeks.

[Charlie Zureki]

Hello all,

I have been bringing in a decent amount of money doing gigs freelance for the last few years, and last fall I endeavored to add more legitimacy to my freelance operations by finding a company name and developing a web presence.

This business plan has been working well for me; my buddy owns a local sound company and I cross-rent his 850 rig fairly often, and due to the nature of the business where personal connections get gigs, I am able to send money his way by doing gigs that would otherwise go to a wedding dj (a large percentage of my events are related to my college and until recently they would hire a wedding dj's rig to try to cover any type of live music event off campus with miserable results). I have been expanding my inventory with the goal of being able to cover events of up to 300 people by myself; any more than this and I would rather cross-rent gear, as storage and transportation then become issues.

Do you have any starting points or suggestions?

I am just hoping to get a head start on the post-graduation job hunt and start making connections in the area (industry and geographic) that I would like to work in following graduation.

In case anyone is wondering, I am also interested in the same sort of internship or summer job in the area in which I live and attend school currently, but I am waiting to hear back on openings.

Thanks for any advice which you can provide!

   Hello,

  It seems as though you're showing your hand.    Many people do not want to hire someone that has started their own Sound Company....or intends to start their own Company.  While it's an admirable goal....

  As a Business owner... I may resent hiring someone that intends to take every bit of knowledge they can, things that they're learning on MY dime, taking their pay, using it to purchase gear,  and later, possibly competing with me. (or possibly, trying to steal my customers)

  If you're great friends with your Sound Co. owning buddy, why are you not working with/for him for the summer, or even as a full time gig?

  Hammer

[James Feenstra]

   Hello,

  It seems as though you're showing your hand.    Many people do not want to hire someone that has started their own Sound Company....or intends to start their own Company.  While it's an admirable goal....

  As a Business owner... I may resent hiring someone that intends to take every bit of knowledge they can, things that they're learning on MY dime, taking their pay, using it to purchase gear,  and later, possibly competing with me. (or possibly, trying to steal my customers)

  If you're great friends with your Sound Co. owning buddy, why are you not working with/for him for the summer, or even as a full time gig?

  Hammer

this is a valid point, although what you may consider doing is bring customers you have to the people that give you work

this builds a strong relationship with them, puts more money in your pocket (cause you arrange a commission off anything they rent)....sound co. owners happy, you're happy, you learn new stuff, and if you do decide to start your own company one day you've already got the reputation...but why would you want to, when you've already got a good relationship with a company where you can likely pick and choose your gigs and already have access to all the toys?

a lot of the time the guy running the gear makes more than the guy owning the gear...

[Charlie Zureki]

Correct. Because this is a camp for high-schoolers, they have a few weeks of training in May (when all the high-school kids are still in school) before the program starts. They repeatedly mentioned that many of their employees have been recording students with absolutely no live audio experience prior to being hired, and others were church audio volunteers with no system setup or tuning experience.
In fact, they felt I was sufficiently qualified for the job when they asked me how many hours I have on an M7 (I mixed on one back in high school every month at my church, I've done the training course, and I cross-rent one for bigger shows), and satisfied with my answer, they moved on to other aspects of the job (how good are you at volleyball? Me: very).
No, the use of line array software and SMAART are two minor aspects of the job that I would have learned in the course of the three weeks of pre-tour training, and given my regular usage of an RTA and my limited knowledge of a variety of line array rigs (none of which I have had access to, all of which I've read the manuals for) I feel I am extremely proficient, especially when compared with someone with a recording or church audio background learning concert sound from the ground up in the course of two weeks.

   Hello,   a continuation from my previous post.....

    Any of the larger Production Companies, or Sound, Video, Lighting Companies, generally hire new employees to push boxes and do grunt labor, regardless of how much "book learnin" the prospect has acquired.

  Proven Experience (working for another Sound Co. or years of Touring with references) may shorten the distance  with a Company to a  lead Tech position.


  But, there's other factors... attentiveness, social skills, loyalty and the willingness to get your hands dirty, even if it's "not your job".

  The Entertainment Business is over-whelmed by prima-donnas, and those too eager to know when they're in over their head.  Those that have been in the Business a while, are sceptical and gun-shy of the new comers.

  (In the old days, you'd have to bleed, sweat and pass-out from drink to be accepted)

  Now...I'm not saying you don't have what it takes, but, we all have to pay our dues, some quicker and some slower.

  There's rigging classes and Smaart classes that are available, take them and move on.

   Hammer
     

[James Feenstra]

anyone who says they learned how to rig from a book will be promptly hung from a motor point by their harness for an extended period of time...

experience is the only teacher...and you'll always be picking up new skills

[Paul Walters]

   Hello,   a continuation from my previous post.....

    Any of the larger Production Companies, or Sound, Video, Lighting Companies, generally hire new employees to push boxes and do grunt labor, regardless of how much "book learnin" the prospect has acquired.

  Proven Experience (working for another Sound Co. or years of Touring with references) may shorten the distance  with a Company to a  lead Tech position.


  But, there's other factors... attentiveness, social skills, loyalty and the willingness to get your hands dirty, even if it's "not your job".

  The Entertainment Business is over-whelmed by prima-donnas, and those too eager to know when they're in over their head.  Those that have been in the Business a while, are sceptical and gun-shy of the new comers.

  (In the old days, you'd have to bleed, sweat and pass-out from drink to be accepted)

  Now...I'm not saying you don't have what it takes, but, we all have to pay our dues, some quicker and some slower.

  There's rigging classes and Smaart classes that are available, take them and move on.

   Hammer
     

You missed the paragraph
"Do you have any starting points or suggestions? I realize anything I could get for a summer job (if I could get one) would involve cleaning the warehouse, rolling cases, and fixing cables, but I make all my own cables so that's not a problem. "
where I said that I'm aware of that fact and willing to work. Your post echoes numerous others which have said the same things. What I'm asking for is advice specific to my situation, not whether I could reasonably expect to be mixing Bon Jovi when I get hired for a summer job.
No matter which specific case I'm rolling or snake I'm winding up, I would have the opportunity to learn by being in the environment where things happen, unlike GC.

[Paul Walters]

anyone who says they learned how to rig from a book will be promptly hung from a motor point by their harness for an extended period of time...

experience is the only teacher...and you'll always be picking up new skills

I didn't say I know rigging, and I therefore could not have learned it from a book.

In regard to manuals, I am aware of the specifications of a given array and thus have more of a base to learn from when learning to fly said array than would someone with no knowledge of this specific array or line arrays in general.

This is to say that I've done my homework to the best of my ability and I'm looking for the opportunity to learn more, work hard, and put it into practice.

[Paul Walters]

   Hello,

  It seems as though you're showing your hand.    Many people do not want to hire someone that has started their own Sound Company....or intends to start their own Company.  While it's an admirable goal....

  As a Business owner... I may resent hiring someone that intends to take every bit of knowledge they can, things that they're learning on MY dime, taking their pay, using it to purchase gear,  and later, possibly competing with me. (or possibly, trying to steal my customers)

  If you're great friends with your Sound Co. owning buddy, why are you not working with/for him for the summer, or even as a full time gig?

  Hammer

Thank you for your concern. My company is simply a base for freelance operations, and I have no desire to start buying up V-DOSC boxes and all the necessary support systems (trucks, warehouse, etc.). I would much rather work for a company that already owns a good rig and work my way up.
My rig is good for rock music coverage of 150 persons indoors, give or take. My goal is to own a rig that can cover 300 for dance music or rock, but this will not be my day job. Ideally I would work for an established company so I don't have to deal with the business side of things nearly as much as I would on my own. 
Plenty of people on here have "fun" rigs and "work" rigs. This is the same idea.

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