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Author Topic: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)  (Read 54740 times)

Stephen Kirby

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2016, 01:45:52 PM »

The way I see it is that QSC has the HP function in the tops and JBL in the subs. Not sure if it makes that much difference as to whether you choose to stay with the same manufacturer or not. You just have to make sure you have the HP function in one or the other - no? ( unless you want to use an external c/o of course)...
The DSRs have the HP function as well.  He's just freaked out by the theoretical 20Hz "hole".  Which in reality is maybe 2 notes depressed slightly and with the subs run the typical 6-10dB hot not in reality a hole at all.  It actually works out well to have a 100 LP on the subs and a 120Hz HP on the tops.

One of my projects this weekend is to annoy the neighbors as I just finished a 2nd set of Cubo Sub 18s and got a new Xilica processor.  So I'll be setting things up in the back yard and finding the right crossover points, curves and delays to play with the DSR112s and either 2 or 4 subs.
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Steve Garris

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2016, 03:06:35 PM »

The DSRs have the HP function as well.  He's just freaked out by the theoretical 20Hz "hole".  Which in reality is maybe 2 notes depressed slightly and with the subs run the typical 6-10dB hot not in reality a hole at all.  It actually works out well to have a 100 LP on the subs and a 120Hz HP on the tops.

One of my projects this weekend is to annoy the neighbors as I just finished a 2nd set of Cubo Sub 18s and got a new Xilica processor.  So I'll be setting things up in the back yard and finding the right crossover points, curves and delays to play with the DSR112s and either 2 or 4 subs.

This exactly - especially inside any club.
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Mark Finnemore

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2016, 09:25:42 AM »

There is 4kg difference in weight before you add castors to the ETX15sp. Also, I didn't want anything deeper than the KW181's as some venues we play at have very tight floor space to set up in! I wouldn't want to have to lift anything heavier than the KW181's! I really notice the 6kg difference between the EV ELX118p and QSC KW181!! The ETX15sp will weigh roughly another 6kg+ more than the KW181's by the time they've had castors fitted and that would be too much for me.

I didn't get to see the ETX15sp's in person but I've heard nothing but good praise about how they perform. However, I had a couple of failures with my old ELX118p's where the amps just died mid gig. A few other people have had the same issue with the ELX118p's near where I live and and one guy's didn't even power on when it arrived! QSC have a strong track record of reliability but I know people having a lot of failures with some of the cheaper EV products.

I'm not sure that is correct.  I'm pretty sure the weight they specify is with casters @ 41.6kg.  The KW181 is 37.6 again I think that's with casters, so that is 4kg difference.  Someone said the casters are over 7lbs, so that's perhaps 3.5kg, making the ETX15sp without casters 38.1kg.

My plan was to remove the casters and just use a sack trolley.

I might create a post actually and see if someone will be kind enough to measure the weight of the ETX15sp without casters, or measure the weight of the casters.  38.1kg wouldn't be too bad really.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 09:39:50 AM by Mark Finnemore »
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Richard Penrose

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #103 on: May 28, 2016, 10:55:33 AM »

Ah yes I can see that now! I was told a while back that the castors were an optional extra but this doesn't appear to be correct information!
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #104 on: May 28, 2016, 03:20:47 PM »

Ah yes I can see that now! I was told a while back that the castors were an optional extra but this doesn't appear to be correct information!

4 casters weigh about 1kg, maybe 1.5kg.  I have moved lots of PA by myself over the decades, lifting, pushing, and generally toting.  With all respect I think you are looking for a false economy based on a kg here, a kg there.  The sack dolly weighs more than all the casters on you gear.  If 2kg makes or breaks your gig I submit you are not physically healthy enough to be moving gear in the manner you are.
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Mark Finnemore

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2016, 04:30:19 PM »

4 casters weigh about 1kg, maybe 1.5kg.  I have moved lots of PA by myself over the decades, lifting, pushing, and generally toting.  With all respect I think you are looking for a false economy based on a kg here, a kg there.  The sack dolly weighs more than all the casters on you gear.  If 2kg makes or breaks your gig I submit you are not physically healthy enough to be moving gear in the manner you are.

I have moved lots of PA gear by myself too over the last 20 years, not sure why that is relevant.

I don't care if the sack trolley weighs more; I'm not trying to lift the sub in and out of the car *while* it is on the sack trolley.  It is the lift into and out of the car boot that I'm worried about, and yes a few kilograms can make the difference when dead-lifting.  I don't care how much it weighs once its on the trolley.

I do see your point, but it seems lots of people make the decision based on this.

You are making many assumptions about me and why I'm asking this.  Don't assume I'm an idiot.  It may not be relevant to you, but it is to me.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2016, 04:54:24 PM »

I have moved lots of PA gear by myself too over the last 20 years, not sure why that is relevant.

I don't care if the sack trolley weighs more; I'm not trying to lift the sub in and out of the car *while* it is on the sack trolley.  It is the lift into and out of the car boot that I'm worried about, and yes a few kilograms can make the difference when dead-lifting.  I don't care how much it weighs once its on the trolley.

I do see your point, but it seems lots of people make the decision based on this.

You are making many assumptions about me and why I'm asking this.  Don't assume I'm an idiot.  It may not be relevant to you, but it is to me.

It seems a shame to choose the QSC over the other candidates that have been suggested, where the attached wheels are one of the benefits of these cabs, to then turn around and immediately remove them in favor of a dolly?????
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2016, 05:02:53 PM »

I have moved lots of PA gear by myself too over the last 20 years, not sure why that is relevant.

I don't care if the sack trolley weighs more; I'm not trying to lift the sub in and out of the car *while* it is on the sack trolley.  It is the lift into and out of the car boot that I'm worried about, and yes a few kilograms can make the difference when dead-lifting.  I don't care how much it weighs once its on the trolley.

I do see your point, but it seems lots of people make the decision based on this.

You are making many assumptions about me and why I'm asking this.  Don't assume I'm an idiot.  It may not be relevant to you, but it is to me.

I don't think I mentioned (and never claimed) any form of idiocy.  Methinks you're reading too much into my comments.

As a union officer I routinely deal with health and safety issues.  If you're unable to lift 50kg, then you probably shouldn't be lifting 48kg, etc.

I'd also suggest that you recruit someone on site to give you a hand with lifting, if it all possible.  I understand that has some crudeness attached (I don't particularly like to do it, either) but having a bit of assistance for 3 minutes at the boot of your auto means a much safer experience for you regardless of a 2kg difference in weight.  A fiver or a pint to your helper is well worth it for your back muscles, too.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Steve Garris

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2016, 05:14:18 PM »

It seems a shame to choose the QSC over the other candidates that have been suggested, where the attached wheels are one of the benefits of these cabs, to then turn around and immediately remove them in favor of a dolly?????

I believe he has very limited room in his vehicle. The dolly will move both boxes, so one dolly would take far less room that the castors on both boxes.

To the OP, I would still recommend the KW118 or PRX718, both fantastic sounding boxes. In my opinion, the PRX is easier to move. I can dead-lift mine using the side handles, with the speaker grill against my body (using my knees to lift). The flat, low form factor of ther KW makes this more difficult to dead-lift. Do not worry about any perceived "hole" at the upper low's, you'll be able to make your system sound great with just a little EQ. And no, the KW is not a one note wonder. It's a great sounding box.

I recently ran a mix with (2) 4550's over (1) PRX715xlf sub. The gain has to be turned up to almost full, but it surprised me and sounded great. This is a very small, lightweight box, but you would definitely want (2) of them.
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Mark Finnemore

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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2016, 08:07:15 PM »

I know you all think I'm nuts, I'm just trying to get as much info as I can before I make a decision.  Unfortunately here in the UK its hard to find places that stock these items; usually its just Internet only shops these days.

The odd thing is people often talk about the ETX-15sp as this unwieldy beast compared to the KW181, but the weight and size look nearly the same, so not sure what I'm missing.

The 15" JBLs would be lovely weight wise, but I'd be worried they'd not cut it doing a rock band in a reasonable size club.  The 18" JBLs seem to have a huge form factor compared to the others.  The ETX-15sp seems just right (though still not seen it in person).  I'm sure the KW181 is fine but my feeling from research suggests the ETX sound quality would be just that little bit better, it seems to go deeper, plus all the DSP options I think would help.

To throw another spanner in the works, I've also got the option to get a pair of second hand VRX918sp for not much more than the ETX's.  Slightly limited on DSP but one hell of a sub..

Debbie, I take your point re casters, and if I had a van where I could just roll things on I wouldn't be worrying about this.  But, unfortunately I just have a fairly big car, so I have to deadlift everything into the boot.  Plus it makes them 5" shorter!  That's a lot...  But I'd have to just try it.

I do really appreciate all your input everyone.  I'm just glad I got my tops sorted!  Looking forward to my second DSR112 being delivered Tuesday :) :)
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Re: PA Speakers Recommendation (live band)
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2016, 08:07:15 PM »


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