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[Steve M Smith]

As AV techs we are now required to wear bright blue flame retardant clothing to plug in anything over 120V

The same sort of management nonsense which now has our street cleaners wearing hard hats for no apparent reason.


Steve.

[Mike Sokol]

The same sort of management nonsense which now has our street cleaners wearing hard hats for no apparent reason.

Meteorites?

[Stephen Swaffer]

If this were my situation, I would probably go for three-phase 120/208V 400A (or greater) service to supply the HVAC system, and a 208V to 120/240V 200A dry transformer off of that panel to supply the existing panel. Or better yet, a service disconnect panel with two breakers, one for the 120/208V HVAC panel, and one for the transformer supplying the existing 120/240V single-phase panel.

There are a lot of places in my area where 3 phase is simply not an option (OK-practical option-ever priced having the POCO run wire for 5 miles?), plus my local POCO adds $30/month to any new 3 phase service for the privilege.  The most economical solution most likely would be a single phase 400 amp panel-pretty common, they the price jumps significantly from 200 amps.

I am not sure I see a practical need (especially considering cost vs benefit) to putting in a transformer to go from 208/120 to a 240/120 system?.

As for the arc flash silliness-OT and I have mentioned before over killing safety is, IMO, counterproductive.  Last week, I worked on a 300 HP VFD fed with 480VAC/400 amps that calculates out to a low end Level 1 arc flash-compared to a 30 amp/208 twistlock receptacle?  Don't get me wrong-arc flash is very real and very dangerous you have to respect it.  I guess its kinda like me and snakes though-I don't want to be near any of 'em even if they are "good ones" because I don't know as much about them as others do!

[Steve M Smith]

Meteorites?

If they wander into a Warner Brothers cartoon, they could be for protection against falling anvils and grand pianos.


Steve.

[Tom Bourke]

As for the arc flash silliness-OT and I have mentioned before over killing safety is, IMO, counterproductive.  Last week, I worked on a 300 HP VFD fed with 480VAC/400 amps that calculates out to a low end Level 1 arc flash-compared to a 30 amp/208 twistlock receptacle?  Don't get me wrong-arc flash is very real and very dangerous you have to respect it.  I guess its kinda like me and snakes though-I don't want to be near any of 'em even if they are "good ones" because I don't know as much about them as others do!

I agree that electricity and arc-flash are a real danger.  However I also feel that understanding that danger and how to avoid it is much more valuable than the blue shirts we have.  Even with the shirt I am FAR more likely to die from some thing big falling on me or electrocution.  With the shirt heat related health problems are far more likely given I live in Las Vegas.

[Stephen Swaffer]

I agree that electricity and arc-flash are a real danger.  However I also feel that understanding that danger and how to avoid it is much more valuable than the blue shirts we have.

Exactly-and that was what I was trying to say.  I view snakes as BAD-management views electricity as BAD so they build a huge wall-I mean make you take crazy precautions.  I know it is not free-(though I think the cost should be lower than it is-its not that difficult to do the calculations or plug the numbers into software though it does take time and serious attention to detail thus needs a qualified person)-but doing a study can be very enlightening on where the actual danger lies.  And it is really nice to be able to look at a panel and KNOW what level of danger is there vs just assuming the worst.

But that is the irony of the OP's situation.  The politicians making the decision for whatever reason by ignoring the people with the knowledge behind the code are actually creating a potentially more hazardous situation.  Just like making you wear extra, unnecessary clothing in the desert heat.

[Chris Hindle]

.... Just like making you wear extra, unnecessary clothing in the desert heat.

Right up until the day that it saves your life......
Just sayin'.

Absolutely educate yourself to the real dangers, and act accordingly. With some of the shit we do, there are NO second chances or do-overs.
Chris.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I agree that electricity and arc-flash are a real danger.  However I also feel that understanding that danger and how to avoid it is much more valuable than the blue shirts we have.  Even with the shirt I am FAR more likely to die from some thing big falling on me or electrocution.  With the shirt heat related health problems are far more likely given I live in Las Vegas.

Safety isn't gear, it's behavior.

There is no equipment that can make you safe. What it can do is provide some level of protection from your own (or someone else's) unsafe behavior or unexpected failures of equipment*. Protective gear that causes unsafe conditions is probably inappropriate for the situation. Sometimes, though, you need to weigh whether the risk/cost of not using equipment outweighs the risk/cost of using it. You may not be able to eliminate risk, and the risks may change, but you should choose the option with minimal risk.

Arc flash protective clothing may result in heat stroke, UNLESS you modify your behavior. That may mean more personnel are required to do the same job, to give personnel longer cooling breaks. Management that fails to recognize this is as culpable in unsafe behavior as the personnel engaging in the behavior. Suffering heat stroke is probably a better option than being seriously burned, but behavior modification supported by management can mitigate that risk, too.

*Properly maintained equipment "shouldn't" fail, but we all must work with equipment that is outside of our sphere of maintenance. We must be prepared for that equipment to fail catastrophically. And bad stuff happens. There was a story a while back about a construction worker who stepped out of his truck without a hard hat on, and a measuring tape dropped from the 50th floor of the building struck him on the head, killing him.

[David Buckley]

Right up until the day that it saves your life......Just sayin'.

Your comment reminds me of an advert that we're getting at the moment.

YouTube link.

[Stephen Swaffer]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you should be flippant about gear.  I have worn FR coveralls over jeans and a long sleeve shirt hard hat and faceshield on a hot August day in Iowa inside a factory-no fun at all, but the hazard called for it.  I have also refused to wear fall protection when technically required-but there was no provision for an anchor point and management indicated I should use an anchor point roughly 9 feet off the floor-so they could check their box that we were following procedures.

Arc flash gear needs to be worn when the hazard requires it-but management mandating use of gear when there is truly no hazard present is silly.  The "I don't care how miserable or uncomfortable your job is, I'm not going to make the effort or expend the energy to  figure out how to do this best" sends the message that safety is really not as important as the temperature of the AC in the office.  Many times, I have seen overbearing safety mandates given lip service-so there is no real safety improvement. You need to take safety seriously enough and care enough to do it right-even if it takes more effort to understand it.

[ProSoundWeb Community]