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Author Topic: LAB / DTS10  (Read 5810 times)

Berti Jacobs

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LAB / DTS10
« on: March 27, 2011, 06:08:59 am »

Hello,

Our club runs a system that consists 4 lab subs + 4 tops per side
http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/2-SK.pdf

We would like the extension of the system to go lower
Could 2 DTS10s per side be an option?

DTS10  -  15/30Hz
LAB  -  30/80Hz
Tops  -  the rest

We program rock/pop bands and DJd music of all styles.
The system never exceeds 75% of its maximum spl capability
Thanks,
Berti
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 10:35:02 am »

Hello,

Our club runs a system that consists 4 lab subs + 4 tops per side
http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/2-SK.pdf

We would like the extension of the system to go lower
Could 2 DTS10s per side be an option?

DTS10  -  15/30Hz
LAB  -  30/80Hz
Tops  -  the rest

We program rock/pop bands and DJd music of all styles.
The system never exceeds 75% of its maximum spl capability
Thanks,
Berti

I think you money would be better spent on a cabinets with greater output, but don't go as low as the DTS10.

As with any cabinet design, there is a price to be paid when getting lower extension.  And that price is sensitivity.  Unless you REALLY need something that goes down as low as the DTS10 -I would look at a louder box that is solid down to 20-25Hz.

For your money-you will get more sound out of a box not designed to go as low.

I really doubt your lab subs are flat to 30Hz, probably more like 35Hz.  So if you run them from 40Hz up and use some HIGHOUTPUT boxes to cover the octave below that, you would be fine.

But remember that our hearing falls off with freq, so you may need to have the "bottom" boxes be capable of greater output than your labs- at least in apparent SPL.

While the DTS10 is a great box for the home (and for applications that need deep bass-but not seriously loud-church organs-special effects at theme parks etc))-I think you would be dissapointed by the output-especially if you are running 4 labs per side at around 75%.

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Berti Jacobs

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 02:47:08 pm »

Hello Ivan,

Thanks for the response.. perfect info!
Is there anything in the Danley HIGHOUTPUT pipeline for that bottom octave that could do this specific job "under" the LABS. You mentioned a "newer DBH type" on a different forum...

Thanks,
Berti
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 05:42:36 pm »

Hello Ivan,

Thanks for the response.. perfect info!
Is there anything in the Danley HIGHOUTPUT pipeline for that bottom octave that could do this specific job "under" the LABS. You mentioned a "newer DBH type" on a different forum...

Thanks,
Berti
Current Danley products that I would recommend would be the TH221 or the TH812, both will get you loud into the 20Hz range-with the 812 getting louder and the 221 getting lower.

The new DBH218 that is flat to 25Hz is "in the pipeline" so to speak.  I'm not sure exactly where it is time wise.  There are some other exciting projects in front of it.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Berti Jacobs

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 05:29:29 am »

Hello Ivan,

Again, thanks for the response.

I think the TH812 replaces our labs alltogether (to say the least). probably the same for the TH221.

Is among the mentioned "exiting projects" one that would fit a job "under" the
labs  Something that covers the 20/40Hz range with enough spl to keep up with
our labs.

thanks,
berti
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 07:39:15 am »

Hello Ivan,

Again, thanks for the response.

I think the TH812 replaces our labs alltogether (to say the least). probably the same for the TH221.

Is among the mentioned "exiting projects" one that would fit a job "under" the
labs  Something that covers the 20/40Hz range with enough spl to keep up with
our labs.

thanks,
berti
Of course any sub that will go low will also go up to 100Hzish as well.  Except for a bandpass design, I doubt you will find a sub that "only" goes up to 40Hz or so.

And I doubt there would be much market for a sub that had a response of 20-40Hz.  Yeah some people want it-but overall the market would not.

So let's run some numbers.  The lab sub has a sensitivity around 106dB (give or take).  To reference to around 1 watts, the power is 400 watts-so the continuous output is around 132dB.  So add 12dB for a block of 4 and you have 144dB.

So you need to look at products in that range of output.

I am assuming when you say "under" that mean physically under your labs-so a pair of the T221's would work well.  A single TH812 would have to be set to the side, but the freq response would be "under" your labs.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Iain.Macdonald

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 01:37:14 pm »

Hello,

Our club runs a system that consists 4 lab subs + 4 tops per side
http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/2-SK.pdf

We would like the extension of the system to go lower
Could 2 DTS10s per side be an option?

DTS10  -  15/30Hz
LAB  -  30/80Hz
Tops  -  the rest

We program rock/pop bands and DJd music of all styles.
The system never exceeds 75% of its maximum spl capability
Thanks,
Berti

Berti,

How strange, you are the first person in many years, that I've come in to contact with, who's using Audio Performance. Also I just had contact from Switzerland(?) asking about a similar thing.

First, you might consider the Martin Audio ASX. The other one to look at is the Outline Lab 21HS. (See under multipurpose section) Whilst 20Hz is a nice idea, getting there, in an economic and space/energy efficient way is problematic. Especially if you want any serious level. There used to be a club in Japan that used a wall of TAD TL 1600 series woofers, in enclosures tuned to 18Hz≈ But I think it was something like 24 drivers.

Iain.



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Berti Jacobs

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 04:23:59 pm »

Hello Ivan?

I wonder how big the audible difference between the TH812 and TH221 is.
Obviously it depends on the program material... but how is it with modern
electronic music with deep synthesized sub basses... Is the difference say 6Hz
deeper extension of the TH221 immediately obvious?
Or is it only with special movie effects that the TH221 makes sense...

Thanks Berti,

   
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: LAB / DTS10
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 07:27:00 am »

Hello Ivan?

I wonder how big the audible difference between the TH812 and TH221 is.
Obviously it depends on the program material... but how is it with modern
electronic music with deep synthesized sub basses... Is the difference say 6Hz
deeper extension of the TH221 immediately obvious?
Or is it only with special movie effects that the TH221 makes sense...

Thanks Berti,

 
The 812 goes quite a bit louder, and the 221 goes a bit lower-in terms of flat freq response.

But you also have to consider that the response does not "stop", rather it rolls off (as with all loudspeakers).

So if you have more level coming out of the 812 (because you are driving it harder) the level at the lower freq would be equal to the 221 (although the higher freq would be louder-unless attenuated).

If loudness is more important-then the choice is the 812, but if you want to go lower and still stay flat-then the 221 is the choice.

Having used both on some dubstep gigs, I would say they both work well.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!
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