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Author Topic: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement  (Read 1887 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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"Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« on: November 14, 2015, 10:48:36 pm »

Just looking for some general thoughts/pointers.  We will likely do an auditorium renovation in 3-5 years and I will push very hard to bring in a consultant-there are a couple on here that are reasonably close, but in the mean time:

Our system has a reasonably flat response/even coverage (I posted and asked in another thread about current speakers and no one recommended a change).  However, pastor wants that "Bose room filling full sound".  He has also commented on being "surrounded" by the sound of the piano so he wants to add fill speakers. (this in the context that if you sit in the auditorium opposite the piano you essentially look at it across the platform and the center cluster obviously causes you to hear it from there, but nothing in your right ear.)

On the "Bose sound."  Is this just EQ? Processing? System is 2-way no subs-do we need to add subs to get there? 

Our music is traditional/old fashioned southern gospel (Stamps-Baxter, etc). so no band.  Occasionally use acoustic guitars, otherwise piano with vocals.

This was part of the direction when I asked about relocating organ speakers in the DML thread.  It seems like a LOT of people see speakers (either one, two or a bunch-or earbuds) plugged into a box and it matters not if it is a home theater surround/live sound/or ??? and no matter the source-recorded or live mics-or location-dead room or live  or outside they should all immerse you in the sound.

Am I being tasked with the impossible, or just over my head?  What can I do to improve things until we decide to go the distance and spend serious money?
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Steve Swaffer

Chrysander 'C.R.' Young

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2015, 10:59:22 pm »

However, pastor wants that "Bose room filling full sound".

Your pastor is clearly possessed by dark forces which disguise themselves as marketing.  I recommend a swift application of holy water, prayer, and a few large bibles applied to the head.

Quote
On the "Bose sound."  Is this just EQ? Processing?

I think your pastor is referring to the systems where sound is directed in several directions which bounces sounds off nearly everything.  Basically, spray the room with sound and it sounds larger than life.  It also sounds like incoherent mud.

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Cailen Waddell

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2015, 10:59:23 pm »

I think you need to get your pastor to show you an example of what he considers room filling sound.  Otherwise this is all just a guess.  I would guess, since that's what you are sort of asking us to do, that it's the mono source that's bothering him.   In some places the center cluster is reserved for vocals, and then instruments are placed in the left/right speakers....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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John L Nobile

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2015, 01:19:12 am »

Have you tried using reverb?
Does your pastor play organ? Organists are used to sound coming from everywhere if they use a Leslie or pipes.
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Darren Aitcheson

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2015, 05:11:20 am »

Wouldn't your pastor normally be sitting behind where your main speakers are anyway, so is unlikely to have a clue what it sounds like for the rest of the congregation?
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2015, 02:39:21 pm »

The "room filling" sound is what we get in a conference room when he uses a Bose portable speaker, or we have used a set up computer speakers with a sub-which is why I am questioning subs/EQ.

I haven't used reverb much-the room plenty live, so I have tread lightly in this area, but we could try it.

We used to have a pipe organ-now we use electronic so that might be part of it-but that change is 7-8 years ago.

Pastor normally sits behind the mains yes-but he routinely finds ways to listen to the sound from every part of the auditorium-and right now we are heading into a major theatrical/musical production where he will be out in the auditorium the entire time. Personally, I like having someone that is picky (his term), concerned and wants it to be the best possible in every seat-just trying to figure out how to get where he wants to go.
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Steve Swaffer

Ivan Beaver

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2015, 05:42:43 pm »

The "room filling sound" may be fine for music in SMALLER spaces, but is terrible for understanding vocals and in larger spaces the added delay time just makes a mess of music.

It is NOT scaleable.

The "room filling" approach is simply using speakers that have no directivity and spray sound everywhere.

Exactly the opposite of what sound system designers try to do.

We try NOT to spray the sound and have better clarity.

Yes it is a tradeoff, and what works in one space for one usage DOES NOT mean it will work in another usage or space.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: "Bose" sound/surround sound and live sound reinforcement
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2015, 10:35:32 pm »

The "room filling sound" may be fine for music in SMALLER spaces, but is terrible for understanding vocals and in larger spaces the added delay time just makes a mess of music.

Yes it is a tradeoff, and what works in one space for one usage DOES NOT mean it will work in another usage or space.

One problem I see is that people try to duplicate a home theater (or Dolby Surround Sound movie theater) experience in a live sound environment. The thing to recognize is that audio reproduction has a different objective from audio reinforcement.

The purpose of audio reproduction in a theater environment is to make you feel like you were there. In the case of reinforcement, you are already there.

It's also helpful to understand that even with reproduction in a theater setting, you aren't trying "fill the room with a sound, but fill it with many sounds. Movie producers still try to make it sound as the source of the sound is coming from a distinct location.

In a live sound situation, you want the listener to perceive that the source of the sound is coming from the actual source (voice or instrument). " Filling the room with sound" through the use of distributed speakers and wall reflections can be disorienting and unintelligible.

On the other hand, maybe the goal is to ensure even coverage throughout the seating area? This can be done easily enough, and should be the goal of any sound system design.

However, you need to define the seating area. This may or may not include the people standing against the back wall. If you don't include that area in your coverage plan, the sound will probably suck there. If you do include it in your plan, the sound may suck everywhere else, because letting the sound bounce off of the walls is usually undesirable.
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Stop confusing the issue with facts and logic!
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