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Author Topic: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?  (Read 19193 times)

Greg_Bell

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2015, 10:51:23 PM »

hey

yeah, the Kilomax drivers are a bit of a hype monster, and don't really live up to it. I made the same mistake about 10 years ago as you did.

As someone said, they only way they work any good is in a huge box around the 600 litre mark, anything else and while they can handle 1000w of heat building up during use, their other parameters let them down badly.

There are several very good drivers from BMS, eighteensound or B&C (among others) that will all do a MUCH better job for your application than the kilomax.

Also, while I realise you already have an amp and box and it seems a shame to waste these, as people have said another route to seriously consider is buying a powered box. Having a driver in a purpose built/matched box, with a match amplifier which has all of its limiters and EQ etc already set appropriately, can make a massive difference and save a huge amount of hassle.

Often powered subs can be a bit of a disappointment compared to their matching tops (QSC and Yammy's aren't great  :-[ ) but the SRX series and models ending XLF, both from from JBL, seem to get excellent results based on peoples experiences.

xx

I did mention one of my considerations was that each device stayed approximately the same weight and I didn't have to calculate any new packing schemes.  An inch here and an inch there and why doesn't this stuff fit in the trailer?? ???

I will no longer rule out powered subs.  I guess I am surprised that in several email exchanges with Eminence tech support where i explained exactly what I was going to do, no flags were raised.  Getting down here in the weeds with y'all is a flag-waving convention for which I am truly thankful.
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Greg_Bell

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2015, 10:52:31 PM »

When DIY becomes DI2Y...

Story of my life!! :) :) :)
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duane massey

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2015, 11:12:16 PM »

When the Kilo-series came out I tried a pair, figuring it might be an upgrade over the Omega-Pro's that I always used. Very disappointing, and never used them again. Went back to the Omegas, and have stuck with them, although I've recently tried the Impero-series with nice results.
The speaker cabinet design is really the most limiting factor in most subs that I have heard over the past decade or so. Makes no difference what you put in it if the design is limited.
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Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Kevin McDonough

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2015, 02:27:40 AM »

In the last 72 hours I concluded I'd need a lab and a degree and a woodworking shop to dive into this and get an optimum result.


It is indeed a very complicated subject, however luckily a simple reflex speaker isn't too bad and there are some things to help you, including several pieces of computer software.

Download a free program called WinISD, which is designed for people to build their own speaker cabinets, and this will go a long way to helping you get a better result.

With a reflex speaker, while there are some fine details that you can play with to really polish off and perfect a design, it's basically just the relationship between the speaker driver parameters against the internal air volume of the box and the port size/length that decide how it'll sound. You can model this in WinISD.

So firstly you'll need to measure your empty speaker cabinet, both the overall dimensions to work out the volume of air inside, and the size/area/length of the ports. This can all be entered into WinISD so you have a virtual model of your cabinet, then you can try different drivers in it.  By typing in the parameters of various drivers, you'll be able to see graphs of how they will be expected to perform.

You're not necessarily looking for the best or most expensive driver on it's own, but whatever one has the correct combination of parameters to work within the cabinet you have and give you a great result.

As I said before have a look at companies such as BMS (a personal fav of mine), eighteensound or B&C. These are all the same drivers that are used by the big manufacturers in their speakers, and while their good 18" sub drivers will be more expensive than the Kilomax drivers I'm sure, but will be worth it and if you can find one that matches your cabs it'll make a world of difference.

k
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 02:57:33 AM by Kevin McDonough »
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2015, 02:44:50 AM »

Kevin...

It might help avoid confusion if you'd use "parameters" instead of "perimeters".
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Kevin McDonough

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2015, 02:55:33 AM »

Kevin...

It might help avoid confusion if you'd use "parameters" instead of "perimeters".

Hahaha, this was typed on my phone as I travel to work and the auto correct wasn't my friend!  Lol. Will go back and edit  ;D
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2015, 07:20:28 AM »

Hahaha, this was typed on my phone as I travel to work and the auto correct wasn't my friend!  Lol. Will go back and edit  ;D

I guess that's the essence of "phoning it in".
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Richard Turner

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2015, 08:44:41 AM »

If you do some sleuthing you will find out the kilomax was really designed to be used in competition car audio, small sealed box stuff. it was eminences answer to the cerwun vega stroker of the same vintage. many improvements have been made over the decade since it was released. While it has larger xmax it had smaller cone volume due to the dual spider assy. It also had a very heavy cone assy.

The bottom out doesn't happen as readily in a small sealed box.

I'm not sure why you would try a high power woofer in a sw118 cabinet. not a very rigid cabinet at all, 400 watt woofer was plenty to make the cabinet panels flex.
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Looking at retiring. Local PA market has shrank to 2 guys with guitars and bose l1 compacts or expecting full line array and 16 movers on stage for $300... no middle left going back to event DJ stuff, half the work for twice the pay.

Greg_Bell

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2015, 05:30:22 PM »


It is indeed a very complicated subject, however luckily a simple reflex speaker isn't too bad and there are some things to help you, including several pieces of computer software.

Download a free program called WinISD, which is designed for people to build their own speaker cabinets, and this will go a long way to helping you get a better result.

With a reflex speaker, while there are some fine details that you can play with to really polish off and perfect a design, it's basically just the relationship between the speaker driver parameters against the internal air volume of the box and the port size/length that decide how it'll sound. You can model this in WinISD.

So firstly you'll need to measure your empty speaker cabinet, both the overall dimensions to work out the volume of air inside, and the size/area/length of the ports. This can all be entered into WinISD so you have a virtual model of your cabinet, then you can try different drivers in it.  By typing in the parameters of various drivers, you'll be able to see graphs of how they will be expected to perform.

You're not necessarily looking for the best or most expensive driver on it's own, but whatever one has the correct combination of parameters to work within the cabinet you have and give you a great result.

As I said before have a look at companies such as BMS (a personal fav of mine), eighteensound or B&C. These are all the same drivers that are used by the big manufacturers in their speakers, and while their good 18" sub drivers will be more expensive than the Kilomax drivers I'm sure, but will be worth it and if you can find one that matches your cabs it'll make a world of difference.

k

Last night I did get WinIsd, and for the first few minutes, it was like Win LSD.  Then I began to sense some patterns.  I found a good link on Wikipedia that explained unloading drivers, and the concept that the reflections coming out of the port should be in-phase but one cycle behind to reinforce.  The Thiele-Small dudes are pretty smart.  ;-)  I also got Boxnotes and got it to open, so that's progress.

My next dig will be into the relationship between tuning a cabinet and the speaker's resonant frequency (if I've even got that much right).  I'd love to try and make something myself because understanding things is fun.

The Kilos are going to be with me for a bit.  They'll go in the poopy Yamaha cabs, because for the time being, I only need a small improvement like 6dB, and I think I can make that safely happen.  Then I can look into making a set of cabs specifically for the Kilos for practice, and consider cabs designed for the oft' mentioned B&C drivers.

I can tell you I've spent the last seven years figuring out how to get guitars to play in-tune!  That's been a massive journey, and my four main players have all ended up refretted with SS frets and finished off with a custom Plek dressing.  Getting something right is totally worth it.
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Greg_Bell

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Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2015, 05:33:42 PM »

When the Kilo-series came out I tried a pair, figuring it might be an upgrade over the Omega-Pro's that I always used. Very disappointing, and never used them again. Went back to the Omegas, and have stuck with them, although I've recently tried the Impero-series with nice results.
The speaker cabinet design is really the most limiting factor in most subs that I have heard over the past decade or so. Makes no difference what you put in it if the design is limited.

For guitar I've been thrilled with Eminence and Celestion speakers.  The G12H30 is the perfect rock speaker.

I'm out of my depth here but figuring out that it's not a component, but the system.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Did it take me 30 minutes to break my Kilomax 18"s?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2015, 05:33:42 PM »


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