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Author Topic: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs  (Read 9565 times)

Aaron Weidner

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Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« on: October 03, 2015, 07:52:48 PM »

Hello all.

I run a small audio reinforcement company. Its more of a hobby than anything.

Im wondering what is the best way to get the signal to and from the mixer from the stage both individually
and in one show Bands/vocalists/DJs

Currently I'm in the worst situation possible. Everything is on the stage, the DJs their controllers and the bands
if there are any.

Ive been thinking of different ways to get the signal from the DJs decks/controller to the mixer and then from the mixer to monitors and the drive rack.

Any and all help or questions would be greatly appreciated. Or even pointing me in the right direction would be a big help.

Thanks!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2015, 08:08:03 PM »

Im wondering what is the best way to get the signal to and from the mixer from the stage both individually
and in one show Bands/vocalists/DJs

Currently I'm in the worst situation possible. Everything is on the stage, the DJs their controllers and the bands
if there are any.

Ive been thinking of different ways to get the signal from the DJs decks/controller to the mixer and then from the mixer to monitors and the drive rack.

With shows that only involve playback from one source at a time, like DJs, I don't see why it is a problem to be on stage. You are not actively mixing. You can set up the system in advance to sound good, and then manage levels by going to the stage to either adjust things or talk to the DJ about their sound.

If you are mixing a band, or any other live show that requires hearing the house sound while you mix, the common solution is a multicable. It needs to be enough channels to get all the sources (mics) out to the mixer and all the mixes, which could be anywhere from 1 to 6-8 on a small setup. You need to determine how many mixes you want to provide. You can have mains (1 or 2), subs, front fills 1 or 2), monitor sends (1-6?). Once you have determined how many mics you want to be able to mix, and how many sends back to the stage you want to be able to provide you will know how many channels you need in your miulti. Then you have to decide how far away from the stage you want the console to be, and how long the cable needs to be to get there.

You can buy multicables with anywhere from 4 channels to 56 channels in pretty much any length from 25' to 500'. Big long cables are expensive, you will have to decide where all these possibilities intersect.

There are many places to get these, a popular manufacturer is Whirlwind

Mac
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Steve Alves

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 08:15:53 PM »

Like Mac said, but if you are Googling.. Use the term stage snake..
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Steven Alves
South Florida Sound, Fort Lauderdale, FL
www.southfloridasound.com

Aaron Weidner

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2015, 08:22:03 PM »

With shows that only involve playback from one source at a time, like DJs, I don't see why it is a problem to be on stage. You are not actively mixing. You can set up the system in advance to sound good, and then manage levels by going to the stage to either adjust things or talk to the DJ about their sound.

If you are mixing a band, or any other live show that requires hearing the house sound while you mix, the common solution is a multicable. It needs to be enough channels to get all the sources (mics) out to the mixer and all the mixes, which could be anywhere from 1 to 6-8 on a small setup. You need to determine how many mixes you want to provide. You can have mains (1 or 2), subs, front fills 1 or 2), monitor sends (1-6?). Once you have determined how many mics you want to be able to mix, and how many sends back to the stage you want to be able to provide you will know how many channels you need in your miulti. Then you have to decide how far away from the stage you want the console to be, and how long the cable needs to be to get there.

You can buy multicables with anywhere from 4 channels to 56 channels in pretty much any length from 25' to 500'. Big long cables are expensive, you will have to decide where all these possibilities intersect.

There are many places to get these, a popular manufacturer is Whirlwind

Mac

Thanks guys, i will check it out. Mac, you described what i have been doing for the past year or so. Some of the more inexperienced DJs use completely deplorable sound files which causes the volume to go up and down, i end up having to go on stage a lot. Most of their gear uses 1/4 inch and RCA, do their controllers have enough power to run down a 50 ft cable? I will definitely check out the snakes. Thanks!
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Kemper Watson

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2015, 08:49:58 PM »

Thanks guys, i will check it out. Mac, you described what i have been doing for the past year or so. Some of the more inexperienced DJs use completely deplorable sound files which causes the volume to go up and down, i end up having to go on stage a lot. Most of their gear uses 1/4 inch and RCA, do their controllers have enough power to run down a 50 ft cable? I will definitely check out the snakes. Thanks!

Use a direct box, or DI.  And if their files are that different, put a compressor on them
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2015, 08:50:55 PM »

Thanks guys, i will check it out. Mac, you described what i have been doing for the past year or so. Some of the more inexperienced DJs use completely deplorable sound files which causes the volume to go up and down, i end up having to go on stage a lot. Most of their gear uses 1/4 inch and RCA, do their controllers have enough power to run down a 50 ft cable? I will definitely check out the snakes. Thanks!
It does not require an "power" to drive a long signal cable.

Years ago-yes-when we were transferring power, but today we transfer voltage with little to no loss.

HOWEVER, you should be running BALANCED signals-mainly to keep the noise down.

Professional DJ desks have balanced outputs.  Usually the mains are XLR, and the DJ montior outs are TRS balanced.

If the desks are unbalanced, you need to run them into a LINE LEVEL DI box.  NOT a regular instrument type DI box.

This will make your life a lot easier.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2015, 01:41:18 AM »

Like Mac said, but if you are Googling.. Use the term stage snake..

Unless you're in the UK then use 'multicore'.


Steve.
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Steve Alves

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2015, 12:10:30 PM »

Unless you're in the UK then use 'multicore'.


Steve.

Yup, if he was in China he could use 舞台蛇 but according to his profile he is in Michigan.
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Steven Alves
South Florida Sound, Fort Lauderdale, FL
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Steve Loewenthal

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2015, 07:00:59 PM »

You don't state what kind of mixer you are using, but for now I will assume it is an analog mixer and not a "newer" digital mixer. When looking for a snake, don't go too cheap unless you are willing to make your own repairs or multiple exchanges on the same item. The others here can chime in on the reputable brands. With a lot of people switching to digital mixers, some are selling of their old analog snakes. If you can get a used one from a reputable sound company it just might be a good value.

On another hand,
Many if the digital mixers can be controlled remotely from a tablet. This means that the mixer can be on the stage, with no need for a snake, and still controlled remotely.

Then on another hand, there are the digital snakes. These connect from the stage to the mixer using a regular network (cat 5 or 6) cable. Most of these only work with their proprietary brand of mixer, but depending on where you are wanting to end up might be a consideration.
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Steve Loewenthal

"I'm, just the guy in a band that owns the PA and I'm trying to figure out how it works. (Been trying to learn somethin' about it for about 20 years and I hope somethin' learns me soon)"

Aaron Weidner

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Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 06:23:44 PM »

It does not require an "power" to drive a long signal cable.

Years ago-yes-when we were transferring power, but today we transfer voltage with little to no loss.

HOWEVER, you should be running BALANCED signals-mainly to keep the noise down.

Professional DJ desks have balanced outputs.  Usually the mains are XLR, and the DJ montior outs are TRS balanced.

If the desks are unbalanced, you need to run them into a LINE LEVEL DI box.  NOT a regular instrument type DI box.

This will make your life a lot easier.

Ah i was un aware of that. Thank you for the information.

Would you guys have any brand suggestions for line level DI boxes used for such a show?

Also, brand suggestions for snakes as well.

Brand name suggestions for mixers as well if possible. I have been meaning to replace mine, it is a small alto mixer i believe. It only has 2 xlr inputs on it. I was thinking about going to the Mackie DL806 but i have not researched into it to much yet.

Im starting to get more live sound and vocal reinforcement requests. Have to brush up on how to minimize feedback, but thats a whole other story.

The information here has been great so far. Thank You very much!
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Best practices for mixing Bands/Vocals/DJs
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 06:23:44 PM »


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