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[Freeman Helmuth]

Have been recording both a church youth choir as well as a special singing choir for the last several years with ADX40's Allen & Heath GL2400, and Audacity on windows. I feel like I have good mics from the research that I have done, but it seems I have a hard time getting "depth" out of my baritone/bass sections. Tenors and Sopranos always come through fairly clear though. The environment that the attached files were recorded in was a quiet commercial building, 9ft tile ceiling, concrete floor 25x50 room size with metal walls. 25 people in choir in a mixed standing arrangement, with three ADX40's at about 4ft apart "looking" at three different sections of the choir. I guess what I'm really after is, is there any way to add more bass and depth by using EQ? I have tried several times but it always sounds really sorry and introduces a bass rumble that I hate. After reading this: http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thinking-inside-the-box-a-complete-eq-tutorial
I feel like I kind of understand what needs to happen as far as separating frequencies but not sure how to go about it. Thanks for any advice!

Here are the files: http://1drv.ms/1JBtO9c

[Craig Leerman]

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real full name as required by the posting rules clearly displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section.

Thanks,
Craig

[Jordan Wolf]

Freeman,

Choirs that are not large in size will typically be lacking in "depth", in my experience. It's a similar concept to loudspeakers outdoors - you typically need quite a few more subs for everything to sound full.

How is the choir broken up into its SATB sections? They probably need more basses...especially if they're a youth choir, where voices are still developing.

Even the best basses will tell you that it's difficult to support and sustain low end as compared to the higher parts.

I recommend closer-miking the low end as well as adding more people to it.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Have been recording both a church youth choir as well as a special singing choir for the last several years with ADX40's Allen & Heath GL2400, and Audacity on windows. I feel like I have good mics from the research that I have done, but it seems I have a hard time getting "depth" out of my baritone/bass sections. Tenors and Sopranos always come through fairly clear though. The environment that the attached files were recorded in was a quiet commercial building, 9ft tile ceiling, concrete floor 25x50 room size with metal walls. 25 people in choir in a mixed standing arrangement, with three ADX40's at about 4ft apart "looking" at three different sections of the choir. I guess what I'm really after is, is there any way to add more bass and depth by using EQ? I have tried several times but it always sounds really sorry and introduces a bass rumble that I hate. After reading this: http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thinking-inside-the-box-a-complete-eq-tutorial
I feel like I kind of understand what needs to happen as far as separating frequencies but not sure how to go about it. Thanks for any advice!

Here are the files: http://1drv.ms/1JBtO9c

I have not listened to the files, but from the information you have provided I would venture a couple of things.

1.  This is not amenable to using EQ as a fix.  If you want to alter the content as desired I would suggest using multi-band compression instead.  But you can only do so much.

2.  You did not give the height of the mics, but with the 9' ceiling you can't get the mics high enough to even out the distance between the front voices and the back voices for a standing choir.

My guess is that you're suffering from a poor room given the low ceiling.  If that's the room you must use you'll have to position the sections within the choir differently to smooth out the various ranges.  As always, the proper "fix" is to get it right at the source.  You might even have to sub-divide the SATB's into several quartets rather than sections by voice.

[Jamin Lynch]

Have been recording both a church youth choir as well as a special singing choir for the last several years with ADX40's Allen & Heath GL2400, and Audacity on windows. I feel like I have good mics from the research that I have done, but it seems I have a hard time getting "depth" out of my baritone/bass sections. Tenors and Sopranos always come through fairly clear though. The environment that the attached files were recorded in was a quiet commercial building, 9ft tile ceiling, concrete floor 25x50 room size with metal walls. 25 people in choir in a mixed standing arrangement, with three ADX40's at about 4ft apart "looking" at three different sections of the choir. I guess what I'm really after is, is there any way to add more bass and depth by using EQ? I have tried several times but it always sounds really sorry and introduces a bass rumble that I hate. After reading this: http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thinking-inside-the-box-a-complete-eq-tutorial
I feel like I kind of understand what needs to happen as far as separating frequencies but not sure how to go about it. Thanks for any advice!

Here are the files: http://1drv.ms/1JBtO9c

What mics are you using?

[Jano Svitok]

According to the first post, he used Audix ADX40 (http://www.audixusa.com/docs_12/units/ADX40.shtml) hanging small diaphragm condensers.

I don't have any experience with this mic. Specification says that the freq response curve is -5 dB already at 200 Hz. I looked up for comparison Rode NT1A (large diaphragm condenser) and it is -4 dB at 20 Hz. I'd say that to get more bass use large diaphragm microphone. It doesn't need to go flat to 20 Hz, somewhere around 80-100 Hz may be enough.

[Kent Thompson]

According to the first post, he used Audix ADX40 (http://www.audixusa.com/docs_12/units/ADX40.shtml) hanging small diaphragm condensers.

I don't have any experience with this mic. Specification says that the freq response curve is -5 dB already at 200 Hz. I looked up for comparison Rode NT1A (large diaphragm condenser) and it is -4 dB at 20 Hz. I'd say that to get more bass use large diaphragm microphone. It doesn't need to go flat to 20 Hz, somewhere around 80-100 Hz may be enough.

Even with a microphone that is a little flatter the wall will still be feedback. Now it might be possible to get a microphone with better pattern control that will allow you to get more low end but, you are still limited by all the other things posted already in previous posts. The previous posts suggestions are probably the best without spending money and not knowing whether or not it will help.

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/choir_microphone_techniques_optimizing_in_challenging_situations/church
For your reading pleasure!

[Ervin Hyatt]

 

Have been recording both a church youth choir as well as a special singing choir for the last several years with ADX40's Allen & Heath GL2400, and Audacity on windows. I feel like I have good mics from the research that I have done, but it seems I have a hard time getting "depth" out of my baritone/bass sections. Tenors and Sopranos always come through fairly clear though. The environment that the attached files were recorded in was a quiet commercial building, 9ft tile ceiling, concrete floor 25x50 room size with metal walls. 25 people in choir in a mixed standing arrangement, with three ADX40's at about 4ft apart "looking" at three different sections of the choir. I guess what I'm really after is, is there any way to add more bass and depth by using EQ? I have tried several times but it always sounds really sorry and introduces a bass rumble that I hate. After reading this: http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thinking-inside-the-box-a-complete-eq-tutorial
I feel like I kind of understand what needs to happen as far as separating frequencies but not sure how to go about it. Thanks for any advice!

Here are the files: http://1drv.ms/1JBtO9c

This mic placement issue. I would put choir sections in order where i could adjust levels on different mics. Mics do not hear like your ears. the closest thing is louder. I heard a choir in a small room pre processed and large room added with reverb. Reverb will only make the loudest thing louder.

hope this helps.

Mic in a room with low ceiling will suffer from cancellations depending where mic is placed. Move mic around on stand and find more low end. add add to mix.

[Freeman Helmuth]

This mic placement issue. I would put choir sections in order where i could adjust levels on different mics. Mics do not hear like your ears. the closest thing is louder. I heard a choir in a small room pre processed and large room added with reverb. Reverb will only make the loudest thing louder.

hope this helps.

Mic in a room with low ceiling will suffer from cancellations depending where mic is placed. Move mic around on stand and find more low end. add add to mix.

I think you are very right here.

[Freeman Helmuth]

Freeman,

Choirs that are not large in size will typically be lacking in "depth", in my experience. It's a similar concept to loudspeakers outdoors - you typically need quite a few more subs for everything to sound full.

How is the choir broken up into its SATB sections? They probably need more basses...especially if they're a youth choir, where voices are still developing.

Even the best basses will tell you that it's difficult to support and sustain low end as compared to the higher parts.

I recommend closer-miking the low end as well as adding more people to it.

True, I did not have the mics very close to the low end. We also were standing in a mixed arrangement, due to the conductor's request, which, to say it nicely did not make me very happy. From what I am hearing and reading, in a dedicated recording session, it is preferable to have parts clearly separated. 

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