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[Frederik Rosenkjær]

Is that on both the peak in the limiter setting block and also the output setting block?

Of course I will measure as well-when I get some time.

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting said measurements. 3 dB extra on the limiter settings would be great (I know - have enough rig for the gig, but still - no reason to unnecessarily limit the system)...but maybe I'll wait till I have Sentinel circuits installed to up the limits if it is deemed safe. Are the SH46 and SM80 models for which the Sentinel circuits are available?

[Frank Koenig]

Is that on both the peak in the limiter setting block and also the output setting block?

Yes, both. The output block setting in Armonia has a helpful little graphic of a sine wave with the peak value indicated and, so far as I know, it's telling the truth.

I use a scope in the lab but in the past I've done a "common sense" check on limiter settings using a sine wave generator and an AC Volt meter. Of course the meter reads RMS or full-wave rectified average calibrated for the RMS value of a sine wave, depending on the design of the meter, so you have to take that into account. But for a field check for when you've lost confidence in the limiter settings it works. Best to disable the RMS limiter when checking the peak limiter to avoid confusion.  Having a meter with a true peak capability would be nifty for this. Oh oh, another piece of gear to buy... -F

[Ivan Beaver]

Best to disable the RMS limiter when checking the peak limiter to avoid confusion. 

Yes-when checking limiters with a voltmeter- you MUST start with the peak and then work your way down.

My "idea" when developing the presets for the Power Soft amps is to use all 3 limiters.

The output as a true peak, and the peak in the limiter section as a "program" limiter and the true power as a power compression type limiter.

This should give a lot of protection.

[Ivan Beaver]

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting said measurements. 3 dB extra on the limiter settings would be great (I know - have enough rig for the gig, but still - no reason to unnecessarily limit the system)...but maybe I'll wait till I have Sentinel circuits installed to up the limits if it is deemed safe. Are the SH46 and SM80 models for which the Sentinel circuits are available?

Of course the limits and presets that we will have will be based on "normal" music (whatever that is???) and "responsible" operation.

The settings will be based on somewhat "normal usage"-not stupid keep turning it up until ALL the lights on the mixer are on!!!!!! type operation.

If you want that-then reduce the limits 2 or 3dB.

I don't feel we should "handicap" responsible people, just to help "save" a few stupid people.

But some people just think they can do whatever they want and "something" will keep them from having problems.

But just like in real life- YOU have to be responsible at some point.

There are no guarantees.  Does everybody in an auto wreck live because there are air bags?  NO-the airbags are there to give a bit of safety.  It is best to avoid the accident if possible.  But the airbags (like limiters) will offer a good degree of protection.

If you drive your car off a cliff-good luck with the "airbags protecting me" thing---------

The current production models of most of the Danley line has the Sentinel circuits standard.  I still have a few to finish however.

Yes the SH46 and SM80 are among those that are available.

It is available as an "aftermarket" add on to older models that do not have it.

If you can use basic hand tools (screwdrivers-wire crimps etc)  you can add it to older models.

It simply goes between the crossover and the HF driver.  The wiring needed is attached to the "stand alone" board.

You just screw it down and attach the wires.

It is NOT a universal board.  Each model has different parts on it-so be SURE to use the correct one.

You can contact Cooper at the office (770-535-0204) for pricing information.

[Frederik Rosenkjær]

The current production models of most of the Danley line has the Sentinel circuits standard.  I still have a few to finish however.

Yes the SH46 and SM80 are among those that are available.

I got 4 SH46s in May (probably shipped in March) - any chance they'd have it already? (they have bi-amp/passive switch which I hadn't seen on them before, if that tells you anything).

How much confidence should one have in them? Are Sentinel protected drivers virtually indestructable or ?

I remember you told a story of the highs section of a J3 being accidentally left connected to a woofer amp output for an entire sports event and still working afterwards, so that would seem to indicate they're pretty much idiot proof, but again that's a strong but band limited signal, so I don't know...

[Ivan Beaver]

I got 4 SH46s in May (probably shipped in March) - any chance they'd have it already? (they have bi-amp/passive switch which I hadn't seen on them before, if that tells you anything).

How much confidence should one have in them? Are Sentinel protected drivers virtually indestructable or ?

I remember you told a story of the highs section of a J3 being accidentally left connected to a woofer amp output for an entire sports event and still working afterwards, so that would seem to indicate they're pretty much idiot proof, but again that's a strong but band limited signal, so I don't know...

I would suspect that those SH46s have it in them.

Send me an email to [email protected] and I can tell you how to look and see by removing 1 panel.

I have tried my best (and spent MANY MANY  HOURS) to blow up drivers that have the circuit.  Using all kinds of music.  I found that big band and harmonic blues music was the most abusive (HF damage wise) of all music forms. 

I started using grunge metal and EDM, but those don't hold a candle to big band-as far as HF heating/damage (at the same continuous levels)

This was using large amps (up to about ten times rate power) run into hard clip.

Of course if  you use normal limiters, that is always an additional safeguard but they work on voltage, NOT the actual power going to the driver (like the Sentinel)

I am not aware of any HF drivers that have failed when using the Sentinel circuit

I am not saying that you can't damage them-but I have not been able to.

That is why we are in the process of putting into all products (that have HF drivers).

[Patrick Campbell]

Hey Everyone,

Again thank you for all the great info.

Once I realized the K3 I am suing on Subs has no DSP installed and I had to use the DR260 as my limiter like I always have with great success, I did make the adjustments needed on the settings and wow did these subs kick this weekend.

I am a VERY HAPPY Camper now - 

thanks again everyone !

Patrick

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