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Author Topic: On stage monitors for Middle School theater  (Read 5706 times)

Jonathan Goodall

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2015, 06:49:59 PM »

While I have your attention, what have you found to be the best location for the lavs?  Right now I have them in the lapel area and try to get them centered.  Because of costume restrictions, most are probably 4" below (and occasionally slightly off to the side) of the actor's mouth.  I know people do them taped to the cheek and you can also run them up into the hairline on the forehead.

I'd love to get more signal in them and to get them on the head so that head turns don't affect input signal.  Thoughts?

Most of the shows I do now have opted for small "flesh colour" over ear headset mics.
At a distance of 10m or so the audience hardly notice them and they always track with the head.  Even with quiet singers I have not had many feedback issues using this type of mic.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 10:55:22 PM »


While I have your attention, what have you found to be the best location for the lavs?  Right now I have them in the lapel area and try to get them centered.  Because of costume restrictions, most are probably 4" below (and occasionally slightly off to the side) of the actor's mouth.  I know people do them taped to the cheek and you can also run them up into the hairline on the forehead.

I'd love to get more signal in them and to get them on the head so that head turns don't affect input signal.  Thoughts?

Over the ear is the second best choice for soloists/main characters unless the best option, center of forehead, is unusable due to wig changes, hats, etc. 
A great option for chorus members who don't have solo parts can actually be, depending on blocking, out on a shoulder.  This allows you to cover more chorus members with fewer mics as those with a mic on their shoulder are now portable mic stands for area micing.

Lee
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Nathan Vanderslice

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 11:26:17 PM »

You think the side washes will reach the audience?  That's what he uses it for, particularly for acoustic instruments so they can be heard.


Just a note here that that all if not at least a representation of the different parts need to be mic'd. This blends the vocals with the instruments. Otherwise the mic'd vocals stand out. It's a stark difference between them. I'm not sure what you meant by the side washes reaching the audience, but they're not for  the audience, they're for the cast.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 02:45:50 PM »

Are these questions for a show you have upcoming shortly or are you thinking ahead to the fall?
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Mike Monte

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 07:55:33 AM »

Okay, I'm going to risk another thread  :).

Our current setup in the school theater uses an LS9-16 with 16 Shure wireless lavs in the sound booth running out to 4 hung speakers and a sub beneath the stage.  I did not install or setup this equipment other than the lavs receivers, so be patient with me as I'm really just getting started learning about the board, etc.. in the last 2 years.  This is NOT my full time job, I'm a teacher and I do this on the side for the school play and musical.  I took over because we were spending almost 5 figures to rent equipment and hire someone, and they were doing a crappy job.  So far, with the help of a sound engineer I know, we've been able to get the original install fixed, upgrade with all the lavs, get the system EQ'd better, and basically I've been able to very successfully run sound.

In the last few years, what the musical director and I have noticed is that the kids can't hear the pit band so they play a little louder, which in turn makes it harder to get enough volume out of the kids mics.  The kids also can't really hear themselves singing.  The musical director does have a little PA that he runs the digital piano through and sometimes mics some horns or strings through.  It's usually only like a 6 piece group.

So here's my question, how hard would it be to get some small stage monitors hooked up to the system?  I know monitoring the band would simply be throwing some small wedges on the front of the stage (I would have to get something unobtrusive), but I'm really wondering how complicated (I have the funds to hire someone) it would be to run on stage monitors from the booth so that the kids could hear themselves singing as well.

I'm open to all advice, including the pros and cons of doing this from people's experience.

What works for me: two low-profile monitors on the stage center and one monitor (on a stick) on each side of the stage as side washes.  The only thing that I put through the monitors is the piano as 90% of the time that is what the students are used to rehearing with.  Only put enough in the monitors to support the singers. 
The kids will always want more in the monitors....  As tech week progresses I listen to the kids' intonation and will only raise the accompaniment in the monitors if the kids start singing "out of tune"; usually flat 99% of the time....

The pit band / orchestra can usually balance themselves to the house if they are located in front of the stage.  If the pit band is under the stage (or off to one side) OR the kids are used to rehearsing with an accompaniment CD (which comes with the show-rental....this seems to be becoming more common-place these days) I'd mic the musos and add the pit mix to the monitors.

The problem with the kids rehearsing with the accompaniment tracks is that they are used to listening to pro pit musicians (properly mixed on the CD) whose sound/balance is seldom duplicated by local pit musicians.

Vocals in the monitors??  It has been my experience with MS/HS aged theater kids that if they can hear themselves through the monitors while on stage, they get softer and softer.  It is much better for them to "sing to the back of the hall" and let the tech balance things.

Just my TCW

Mike M
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jesseweiss

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 07:58:02 AM »

Are these questions for a show you have upcoming shortly or are you thinking ahead to the fall?
Spring actually. Fall is the drama, so plenty of time to figure things out.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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Bill McIntosh

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 10:55:28 AM »

If you use a CD try to get a split track version.  If I can put some of the "professional" vocals in monitor it seems to help the kids sing out.  Keep the pro vocals out of house so Mom can hear Junior.

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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 12:56:12 PM »

Spring actually. Fall is the drama, so plenty of time to figure things out.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, the band is too loud now. Is there a conductor? Or is it a player (most likely piano) that is trying to lead the pit band. Dedicated conductor will almost always be better. If the conductor is also playing piano they have a tendency to bang on the piano to try to lead the pit. Just because they are paid doesn’t musically make them professionals. A professional pit player knows how to keep their level under control. If the pit is too loud they are probably also out of balance with each other and that makes it hard for the singers to find their notes. It always bothers me when we are expected to fix a source problem. Ask the person in charge to have the pit spend more time getting themselves together, it will sound so much better.

I have hardly ever had to use a monitor on stage for the actors/singers. It is just adding more noise to the stage. When I did I used one only, from the side at the proscenium arch shooting across the stage. And usually it is only the piano going into it. If the band is too loud and not together making them louder on stage won’t fix anything. But maybe just the piano in a monitor will help with the train wreck. Have someone back at the console and work out a hand signal (what means up, down and stop) with you standing on the stage have the piano player play and signal the person at the console with their hand on the piano aux send how much to bring into the monitor. For psychological reasons you may want to do this while the kids are on stage but not singing. Only put enough in the monitor so you are just hearing it. This is your starting point. And this may only be for as I said psychological reasons only. But it may help them.

Or you could do it the way that some Broadway shows do put the pit in another room and feed them thru the sound system. Details of how to do this are another whole discussion.

As far as the mics go I am all for head worn. It is much more consistent sounding then on the costume somewhere. I was using Countryman E6 mics. The problem with the E6 is they are usually too long for any one that doesn’t have a huge head. Depending on your speaker placement there are other ear worn mics that are cheaper then the E6 that can work very well.   

Now for story time. On Godspell that I just did this summer the pit consisting of paid musicians who were not together as they should have been. Some of this was due to last minute changes due to peoples availability. Everything in the pit was miced or direct and split to the multi track recording that the video teacher does, he also gets a mixed vocal feed from me. I only used the pit mics in one song, the crucifixion scene. They were too loud at all other times. At one point before the pit band showed up for the day some of the kids where playing in the pit at a reasonable level and I brought it up in the house and it sounded very good and even throughout the house. I just wish that the band played that way.

There was at least one time that the actor playing Jesus used a handheld mic. Due to his mic handling technique the E6 actually sounded better. And I had no problem with gain before feedback and even getting him loud enough over the loud pit.
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jesseweiss

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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 10:50:19 PM »

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, the band is too loud now. Is there a conductor? Or is it a player (most likely piano) that is trying to lead the pit band. Dedicated conductor will almost always be better. If the conductor is also playing piano they have a tendency to bang on the piano to try to lead the pit. Just because they are paid doesn’t musically make them professionals. A professional pit player knows how to keep their level under control. If the pit is too loud they are probably also out of balance with each other and that makes it hard for the singers to find their notes. It always bothers me when we are expected to fix a source problem. Ask the person in charge to have the pit spend more time getting themselves together, it will sound so much better.

I have hardly ever had to use a monitor on stage for the actors/singers. It is just adding more noise to the stage. When I did I used one only, from the side at the proscenium arch shooting across the stage. And usually it is only the piano going into it. If the band is too loud and not together making them louder on stage won’t fix anything. But maybe just the piano in a monitor will help with the train wreck. Have someone back at the console and work out a hand signal (what means up, down and stop) with you standing on the stage have the piano player play and signal the person at the console with their hand on the piano aux send how much to bring into the monitor. For psychological reasons you may want to do this while the kids are on stage but not singing. Only put enough in the monitor so you are just hearing it. This is your starting point. And this may only be for as I said psychological reasons only. But it may help them.

Or you could do it the way that some Broadway shows do put the pit in another room and feed them thru the sound system. Details of how to do this are another whole discussion.

As far as the mics go I am all for head worn. It is much more consistent sounding then on the costume somewhere. I was using Countryman E6 mics. The problem with the E6 is they are usually too long for any one that doesn’t have a huge head. Depending on your speaker placement there are other ear worn mics that are cheaper then the E6 that can work very well.   

Now for story time. On Godspell that I just did this summer the pit consisting of paid musicians who were not together as they should have been. Some of this was due to last minute changes due to peoples availability. Everything in the pit was miced or direct and split to the multi track recording that the video teacher does, he also gets a mixed vocal feed from me. I only used the pit mics in one song, the crucifixion scene. They were too loud at all other times. At one point before the pit band showed up for the day some of the kids where playing in the pit at a reasonable level and I brought it up in the house and it sounded very good and even throughout the house. I just wish that the band played that way.

There was at least one time that the actor playing Jesus used a handheld mic. Due to his mic handling technique the E6 actually sounded better. And I had no problem with gain before feedback and even getting him loud enough over the loud pit.

The musical director is the conductor is the piano player.  All musicians are very professional (some have Broadway experience).  It was really just an idea the MD had mentioned to me to help the kids hear the piano a little better (and I believe he mentioned something about them hearing themselves a little too but I might be remembering wrong).

Nothing major worth worrying about.
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Re: On stage monitors for Middle School theater
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 10:50:19 PM »


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