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Author Topic: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar  (Read 11596 times)

Tom Roche

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DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« on: July 28, 2015, 01:21:25 PM »

A friend is looking to buy a DI for his acoustic guitar (country band) and I'm asking for suggestions from experienced forum guitar players that I can pass on to him.  He prefers that it have EQ.  Do any particular companies/models stand above the rest?  Thanks.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 01:36:31 PM »

Tom...

Tell him from me (and a whole host of other FOH guys) that the thing I really, really want in the signal chain is another #^**%¥%! thing to mess up the send out front, to say nothing of the player tweaking it during the show and taking my carefully crafted sonic blend out of the pocket.

/rant

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Tom Roche

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 01:54:40 PM »

Tom...

Tell him from me (and a whole host of other FOH guys) that the thing I really, really want in the signal chain is another #^**%¥%! thing to mess up the send out front, to say nothing of the player tweaking it during the show and taking my carefully crafted sonic blend out of the pocket.

/rant

A little more info I just picked up.  He's currently using a Pro Co db2 DI on a Taylor guitar.  He's not happy with the guitar's built-in EQ, saying it's either too tinny or boomy (his words).  Having FOH engineer is very rare.  He's good about not fiddling with EQ once the band gets going.

Dick, do you prefer the built-in guitar EQ settings set at middle position and let you/FOH handle EQ using channel strip?
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Scott Wagner

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 02:02:32 PM »

A little more info I just picked up.  He's currently using a Pro Co db2 DI on a Taylor guitar.  He's not happy with the guitar's built-in EQ, saying it's either too tinny or boomy (his words).  Having FOH engineer is very rare.  He's good about not fiddling with EQ once the band gets going.
L.R. Baggs make decent DIs for this purpose. I've worked with many that sounded great, but many more that didn't (due to the player's EQ knowledge/ability). Honestly, any decent DI would work better with a mixperson involved (Countryman, Radial, etc.). My current favorite (no EQ) is the RNDI from Rupert Neve - yes, it's worth the premium price (~$260 street). Perhaps his money is better spent on an instrument that easily provides the tonality he desires.
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Scott Wagner
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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 02:07:19 PM »

Tom...


Ad you might well guess, ANY  guitar with a built-in
EQ is a big red flag.

Fix it at the source:  Buy a decent guitar in the first place and if you must have a pickup, go for something like  a Rare Earth that has a matching pre-amp engineered to work as a set.

Any "consumer level" pickup with EQ and level controls has a 90+% chance of being a POS. 

Oh...and they should either put in a fresh battery prior to EVERY  performance or accept 48v power from the board.
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Corey Scogin

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 02:37:25 PM »

L.R. Baggs make decent DIs for this purpose. I've worked with many that sounded great, but many more that didn't (due to the player's EQ knowledge/ability). Honestly, any decent DI would work better with a mixperson involved (Countryman, Radial, etc.). My current favorite (no EQ) is the RNDI from Rupert Neve - yes, it's worth the premium price (~$260 street). Perhaps his money is better spent on an instrument that easily provides the tonality he desires.

I prefer when a guitarist has their sound figured out such that when they plug in, it doesn't require lots of EQ at FOH.

For my friends who play acoustic instruments, I suggest the LR Baggs Para DI or the Venue.  I suggest this because they often don't have the luxury of an experience sound person running FOH.  This allows them to get a decent sound in more situations more consistently.

More important than which DI, I strongly suggest that the musician plug their rig into a studio monitor and dial it in so that it sounds the best with a variety of playing styles, mark the knobs, and leave them.  Ideally, this could be with the help of a mixperson.

I also agree with Dick but I think that a dedicated DI can be part of the "good instrument" equation.

I'm always happy if a violinist, for example, comes in and just asks for an XLR input for their DI because they have their setup figured out and tuned in nicely.  This means they have put significant thought into what it takes to get a good sound through a PA in difficult locations.  Others with less experience playing in such locations may expect to just use whatever mic is provided...even though they are playing with a rock band and standing within 10ft of the drums.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:39:52 PM by Corey Scogin »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 02:51:24 PM »

I prefer when a guitarist has their sound figured out such that when they plug in, it doesn't require lots of EQ at FOH.

For my friends who play acoustic instruments, I suggest the LR Baggs Para DI or the Venue.  I suggest this because they often don't have the luxury of an experience sound person running FOH.  This allows them to get a decent sound in more situations more consistently.

More important than which DI, I strongly suggest that the musician plug their rig into a studio monitor and dial it in so that it sounds the best with a variety of playing styles, mark the knobs, and leave them.  Ideally, this could be with the help of a mixperson.

I also agree with Dick but I think that a dedicated DI can be part of the "good instrument" equation.

I'm always happy if a violinist, for example, comes in and just asks for an XLR input for their DI because they have their setup figured out and tuned in nicely.  This means they have put significant thought into what it takes to get a good sound through a PA in difficult locations.  Others with less experience playing in such locations may expect to just use whatever mic is provided...even though they are playing with a rock band and standing within 10ft of the drums.

I have 2 national artists that I work with regularly, both are multi-instrumentalists and each uses a single wireless transmitter for all "worn" instruments... they use foot switch selectors to recall EQ for different instruments.  Artist "J" plays a lot of intimate venues and I suspect he's EQd stuff to sound good in speaker on sticks and church hall PAs.  Artist "T" plays smaller venues, too, but his instruments sound much better on a big PA than "J's" do.  These are not typical performers, though.

In general, I'd prefer that an artist use an instrument that naturally sounds the way (s)he wants it to sound in the PA.  I'm very much in agreement with Dick - the less shit a performer can mess with between his semi-acoustic instrument and the mixer, the better our day will be.  Some things cannot be sufficiently corrected by reciprocal EQ...

It's fun to talk to the occasional punter that comes to the FOH tent.  "Her guitar sounds amazing, what are you doing to it?"  "Uh, I turned it up.  Other than a high pass at 90Hz, I've done nothing".  Compare that with "man, that guitar seems to be, uh, challenging..."   "Yeah, and here's what it sounds like without EQ...."  {insert big audience frown here}.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2015, 02:59:39 PM »

Tom, there have been several discussions about DIs and various instruments.  You can probably find 3 hours of reading enjoyment by using a search engine.

That said, I personally own Radial J48 and Countryman Type 85 (8 and 6, respectively) for acoustic instruments and 6 EWI LDB-101 for everything else.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2015, 03:02:29 PM »

A little more info I just picked up.  He's currently using a Pro Co db2 DI on a Taylor guitar.  He's not happy with the guitar's built-in EQ, saying it's either too tinny or boomy (his words).  Having FOH engineer is very rare.  He's good about not fiddling with EQ once the band gets going.

Dick, do you prefer the built-in guitar EQ settings set at middle position and let you/FOH handle EQ using channel strip?

He needs to call Bob Taylor...
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

frank kayser

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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 04:22:02 PM »

He needs to call Bob Taylor...


One thing I've noticed with many acoustic players is that an extremely high percentage are clueless (oblivious) about the tone-shaping controls on their guitar.  Giving them a DI/pre-amp with even more arcane controls will not improve the sound - most of the controls in non caring i.e., inexperienced hands turn into "suck" knobs.  The more controls, the less the ability to find the sweet spot.


That said, I have worked with a few who've used LR Baggs Para-acoustic with excellent results.  They also know their instrument, the voice they want it to have. They also are fearless in adjusting the controls, tempered with the ear and analytical skills to understand what is missing or in excess in the sound and how to correct the imbalance.


Unfortunately, those skills are not inherent to being a good instrumentalist - in many cases, just the opposite - whatever voodoo they used to come up with settings (how it came out of the box, friends, position of stars, etc) regardless of how it may sound, is what they will stick to regardless.  Many are afraid to touch anything - some do not have the analytical skills to work the controls, some don't have the ear.


So, if they MUST have an adjustable DI, the Paracoustic works well.  If you can talk them into a Radial J48 or Countryman Type 85, they may be happier.


frank
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Re: DI Suggestion for Acoustic Guitar
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 04:22:02 PM »


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