ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries  (Read 21487 times)

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 11:44:00 PM »

Flaking off and insulating a terminal assuming that the device is most likely scraping the piece off I can definitely see. But as I showed it the picture it is solid metal all the way down to the negative side, the footplate. That has to be where a problem would happen anything sticking to the top (plus side) of the battery is most likely just going to insulate it and make it not make contact and that is bad but it will not cause any other issue at that end. My point is look at the bottom. And I will stress that look at the bottom at the negative terminal for any other problem you are having. You are looking at the wrong end if all you are checking is the + terminal.

Of course I have inspected the entire battery when troubleshooting this problem, on many instances of failure.  Not every time, though, because I can't always stop to mess around for too long when the show is underway and I'm trying to keep things running.

I have never found any damage at the - end of the batteries, neither before insertion or after.

Flakes of orange substance adhered to the + terminal upon removal have correlated to failures every time, on at least 10 occasions, over the course of several months.

I know that correlation does not prove causation, but in this case I believe that the physics of capacitance and resistance should support it.  However, I have not done the math, so could indeed be very wrong.

Please understand that I have decades of experience with electronic design and component-level equipment repair.  I am not figuratively* fumbling around in the dark with this, and respectfully disagree that a thin dielectric film flake stuck to the + terminal is an all-or-nothing proposal for sufficient contact, especially with cup-type terminals such as those found in P10R devices.

* I often literally fumble in the dark with batteries. This is perhaps why this problem is so vexing.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 11:58:50 PM by Jason Glass »
Logged

paul bell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 609
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2015, 07:00:40 AM »

Would you consider a different brand? I've had very good luck with Rayovac Pro batteries, at least as good as the Duracell and Energizer batteries and can be found at more reasonable pricing.
Logged

DavidTurner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 318
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 11:52:51 AM »

+1 on the Rayovacs. Never had a failure.

Would you consider a different brand? I've had very good luck with Rayovac Pro batteries, at least as good as the Duracell and Energizer batteries and can be found at more reasonable pricing.

Logged

John L Nobile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2658
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 12:26:22 PM »

+1 on the Rayovacs. Never had a failure.

I've been thinking of going back to RayoVacs. They've worked best for me over the years. This thread has me concerned now.
Logged

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17172
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2015, 12:49:51 PM »

Recently I have been using 4ea Procell AA batteries as original equipment in my drum tuners. I have not experienced any of the problems you report.

Is it possible you encountered a faulty batch? Have you checked the date codes of the bad batteries to see if there is a batch grouping?

I can see a seam in the wrap in the vicinity of your reported flaking. In large scale manufacturing stuff happens and this could be an example of some process slightly out of whack.

Have you talked to the battery maker? 

All of my experience with procells is from only one or two production batches. But I have no problems to report.

JR
Logged
Cancel the "cancel culture". Do not participate in mob hatred.

Bill Flugan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2015, 02:16:43 PM »

This is not an isolated problem with a certain batch.  I've had this problem ever since they changed the packaging.  I've noticed it mostly with the P10R packs as they have a sharp edge on the + side of the battery case.  We had constant troubles with packs not working or being intermittent.  For this reason I don't let anyone battery who isn't aware of the problem and how to push the batteries all against the springs before pushing in.

The pack draining may be a separate issue.  When I first started working with 1000's I had about 1 in 4 failure rate of packs that would eat batteries.  I would re-battery packs after sound check and then they'd be dead before the beginning of the show less than 3 hours later.  Shure is aware of the issue and has a repair procedure.  It has to do with the leads on a capacitor being too long, shorting out to the outside casing and draining the battery.

If you need it, PM me with email info and I will send the procedure to you.
Logged

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2015, 07:00:14 PM »

This is not an isolated problem with a certain batch.  I've had this problem ever since they changed the packaging.  I've noticed it mostly with the P10R packs as they have a sharp edge on the + side of the battery case.  We had constant troubles with packs not working or being intermittent.  For this reason I don't let anyone battery who isn't aware of the problem and how to push the batteries all against the springs before pushing in.

The pack draining may be a separate issue.  When I first started working with 1000's I had about 1 in 4 failure rate of packs that would eat batteries.  I would re-battery packs after sound check and then they'd be dead before the beginning of the show less than 3 hours later.  Shure is aware of the issue and has a repair procedure.  It has to do with the leads on a capacitor being too long, shorting out to the outside casing and draining the battery.

If you need it, PM me with email info and I will send the procedure to you.

Thank you, Bill!  I was unaware of the capacitor lead issue.  Please shoot me the procedure when you have time.  I had two P10R's on my last gig draining batteries while powered off, in exactly the same situation as you described.

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2015, 01:44:11 PM »

This is not an isolated problem with a certain batch.  I've had this problem ever since they changed the packaging.  I've noticed it mostly with the P10R packs as they have a sharp edge on the + side of the battery case.  We had constant troubles with packs not working or being intermittent.  For this reason I don't let anyone battery who isn't aware of the problem and how to push the batteries all against the springs before pushing in.

The pack draining may be a separate issue.  When I first started working with 1000's I had about 1 in 4 failure rate of packs that would eat batteries.  I would re-battery packs after sound check and then they'd be dead before the beginning of the show less than 3 hours later.  Shure is aware of the issue and has a repair procedure.  It has to do with the leads on a capacitor being too long, shorting out to the outside casing and draining the battery.

If you need it, PM me with email info and I will send the procedure to you.

Hi Bill,

I'm thinking about making a "shoehorn" for the + end of the P10R battery case out of thin film polyethylene.  Do you think this will help?

Shaped like this:

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2015, 02:03:37 PM »

Recently I have been using 4ea Procell AA batteries as original equipment in my drum tuners. I have not experienced any of the problems you report.

Is it possible you encountered a faulty batch? Have you checked the date codes of the bad batteries to see if there is a batch grouping?

I can see a seam in the wrap in the vicinity of your reported flaking. In large scale manufacturing stuff happens and this could be an example of some process slightly out of whack.

Have you talked to the battery maker? 

All of my experience with procells is from only one or two production batches. But I have no problems to report.

JR

Hi John,

At first I thought that the lap seam might be the nexus of the issue, but I have also found the tearing to occur at other random locations around the circumference, as shown in my second photo.  The battery coatings in those photos were most assuredly flawless before insertion.

I have not spoken with Duracell yet, as I want to know if there's a consensus in our crowd and to see if the issue is widespread or other variables arise.  For example, Kevin has noted that damage of the bottom plate is a possible cause.  Bill F. also uses a ton of these things in his work, and it's reassuring to see that he has experienced similar issues with the coating, but his post has awakened me to the likelihood that the cause of premature drainage may be separate and lie in the equipment rather than the batteries.

IMHO, though, there is a consistent correlation between orange particles stuck to the + terminal and equipment failing to power up.

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17172
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2015, 02:26:54 PM »

Hi John,

At first I thought that the lap seam might be the nexus of the issue, but I have also found the tearing to occur at other random locations around the circumference, as shown in my second photo.  The battery coatings in those photos were most assuredly flawless before insertion.

I have not spoken with Duracell yet, as I want to know if there's a consensus in our crowd and to see if the issue is widespread or other variables arise.  For example, Kevin has noted that damage of the bottom plate is a possible cause.  Bill F. also uses a ton of these things in his work, and it's reassuring to see that he has experienced similar issues with the coating, but his post has awakened me to the likelihood that the cause of premature drainage may be separate and lie in the equipment rather than the batteries.

IMHO, though, there is a consistent correlation between orange particles stuck to the + terminal and equipment failing to power up.
It appears like it might be a combination of a tight battery compartment(s) that abrades the outer wrap, and a wrap that is not robust enough for that duty.

In my application I have a standard wide open battery holder where batteries do not experience any interference during installation.

Duracell may already be aware of this if the problem is widespread. There are probably many formulations for the vinyl wrap, and I can image one engineered to be easier to remove for recycling or something like that. 

JR

PS: Don't get me started on variations in plastic... I had a very painful lock-up problem due to sub standard low durometer (too soft) plastic gears in a tape transport.
Logged
Cancel the "cancel culture". Do not participate in mob hatred.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Public Service Message Regarding Orange Procell AA Batteries
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2015, 02:26:54 PM »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 26 queries.