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[Eugen Jeličić]

So to get the story short. I have 4 bass bins from an italian company called peecker sound. Basically they are EV T18 cabs made out of MDF and there are RCF L18S800 drivers inside. When properly amped they sound really great. Except for the fact that they don't go that low. But that's expected for a short horn loaded box. Here they are:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...pse3168859.jpg

On top of them you see 2 small cabs with RCF l12-544k drivers and RCF N980 tweeters. These little cabs sound really fatastic and very clean. But i only have 3 of those and can't find the same one that i can buy so i can have 4.

What i have decided is use those 3 as monitors and buy new tops for my PA.
The 3 best options are now have are:

A used pair of RCF event 6000 cabs, a brand new pair of EV TX1152 boxes and a used pair of D.A.S audio R-215 cabs.

All 3 options come around the same price. Keep in mind that these EV's are brand new and other 2 options are used.
Now naturally i ran and compared specifications of the EV cab and the RCF cab. The rcf's sensitivity is 2dB lower then the EV (101 vs 103dB). But the RCF cab can handle 1000W RMS and the EV can handle 500w RMS. Witch in the end comes down to the similar peak output (both are rated at 133dB). But from 2 totally different boxes. Talking about practicality and the fact that the EV cab is new i'd rather take it over the RCF 6000. But i'm afraid that the event 6000 might sound better... because of the simple fact that it's a fantastic 2x15 + 8 + tweeter cab. So we are talking about a high quality 3-way box vs a decent 2-way with a single 15. The specs say they should get equally loud at peak SPL witch i'm not sure should i believe.

What do you think about these options. Will the RCF cab sound better, is it true that it can't get louder then the small EV cab?

And then we hit the third option. A guy here is selling 2 used cabs from D.A.S audio. Witch on a paper is a 1000w RMS cab with decent sensitivity and should get up to 136dB max. But i have no experience with these cabs and am skeptical because they are a dual 15 cab. From my experience with yamaha c215v dual 15 cabs tend to sound muddy, with lack of highs.

[David Hayes]

It's likely that any 15" top over 18" subs will leave you lacking in the highs.

[Eugen Jeličić]

It's likely that any 15" top over 18" subs will leave you lacking in the highs.

Why? This EV isn't a dual 15 with a tweeter not powerfull enough. It should be nicely balanced. And the RCF is running 2 15's but with high power tweeters and an 8 for vocals etc...
Yes the yamaha c215v dows lack highs because they put the same tweeter in the c115v and the 215v so the 215v had too much mids. But this does not need to be the rule for all 15' boxes.

[Mike Pyle]

I would expect the RCFs to readily outperform the others you mention, despite claimed specs. I'd be a little concerned about the age of them, as most parts will be unavailable from RCF anymore, complicating things if you ever need repairs.

You said the EVs are new. Does that mean that you have access to the rest of EV's lines?

[Eugen Jeličić]

I would expect the RCFs to readily outperform the others you mention, despite claimed specs. I'd be a little concerned about the age of them, as most parts will be unavailable from RCF anymore, complicating things if you ever need repairs.

You said the EVs are new. Does that mean that you have access to the rest of EV's lines?

Yes, i would agree... nothing like a good 3-way box.
No, a guy bought 2 of them a year ago and never taken them out of the box. He is selling both for about 1100$ here in Croatia. The D.A.S cabs would cost me the same and the RCF's would cost me about 950. I really prefered the EV because of it's size and the fact it's new, i also taught it's a really good cab because it's one of the better EV lines considering they have ZLX and ELX witch is a cheaper series. I also heard really god things about the EV cab. But i guess expecting it to be as good as this old RCF closet is too much...

[Stephen Kirby]

The original T18s are kind of thumpy and don't go very low.  Pairing them with a 2-15 sounds like a recipe for mud to me.  Unless the box has a very good (2" or 3" diaphragm) horn crossed over fairly low that can keep up.  I would lean towards a single 15 or 12 based 3 way.

Are you running all the instruments though the PA?  Reinforcing the stage sound, or is everything direct?  Everybody in modelers running direct would be the only reason I would think of dual 15s.

[Bob Leonard]

It's likely that any 15" top over 18" subs will leave you lacking in the highs.

This is just a wrong and totally unqualified statement. What you're saying is that the compression driver won't be able to keep up with the 15" driver. Any properly designed full range cabinet will transition across the range of the 15" driver and compression driver without sacrificing sound quality or range. As a matter of fact the advantage goes to the 15" cabinet and it's ability to more accurately reproduce low mid frequencies, the range in sound where much of the kick drum lives. Combine that with a smoother transition to the 18" sub and lower distortion at higher SPL and the 15" cabinet wins every time.

It's really time to put the 12" is better than 15" driver myth to bed. Each has it's own qualities, and each has it's own capabilities.

Of course, none of the above will apply if your cabinets are junk or not properly crossed and EQ'd.

[Eugen Jeličić]

The original T18s are kind of thumpy and don't go very low.  Pairing them with a 2-15 sounds like a recipe for mud to me.  Unless the box has a very good (2" or 3" diaphragm) horn crossed over fairly low that can keep up.  I would lean towards a single 15 or 12 based 3 way.

Are you running all the instruments though the PA?  Reinforcing the stage sound, or is everything direct?  Everybody in modelers running direct would be the only reason I would think of dual 15s.

I don't understand how is the sound of my subs related to mud in my mids and highs. My T18's have much better drivers then the original EV's but yes, they are still T18's and don't go that low. And how does that make the sound more muddy? Are you trying to tell me that if i had sub that go lower my entier mix would sound much cleaner? I don't understand this. If a dual 15 box is muddy by default. The system is going to be muddy and crappy sounding, if it's not and has a nice powerfull tweeter this shouldn't be a problem.
I'm going to be mixing live bands. And average concert would be, 2 guitars, bass , 2 vocals and 7-8 mics from the drumkit running to lets say a behringer x32, 32 band EQ, a crossover and then to the PA. From my experience the 15' cab will run better in the low mids while the 12' cab should run the vocals better. The overall clarity will depend on the combinaton of the drivers and the tweeter. From my experience these 15 vs 12' rules are usually less important then the fact of the speaker quality itself. Yes i worked with the yamaha c215v and damn i don't like them. So much lack of clarity that i tought there was something wrong with the box. But then again what inside of that box? Cheep crap from eminence and a tweeter not powerfull enough for dual 15's.

Also don't ask what type of music will you be using them for, i expect my PA to run well if used for deathcore in an underground concrete basement the one night and jazz in a park the next day.

[David Hayes]

This is just a wrong and totally unqualified statement. What you're saying is that the compression driver won't be able to keep up with the 15" driver. Any properly designed full range cabinet will transition across the range of the 15" driver and compression driver without sacrificing sound quality or range. As a matter of fact the advantage goes to the 15" cabinet and it's ability to more accurately reproduce low mid frequencies, the range in sound where much of the kick drum lives. Combine that with a smoother transition to the 18" sub and lower distortion at higher SPL and the 15" cabinet wins every time.

It's really time to put the 12" is better than 15" driver myth to bed. Each has it's own qualities, and each has it's own capabilities.

Of course, none of the above will apply if your cabinets are junk or not properly crossed and EQ'd.

Well that has not been my experience.  I have tried 15" 2 way tops and didn't find them to be as clear and "Sweet" sounding over 18" subs as my 12" tops.  JBL PRX425s do not sound as good for vocals and electric guitar as DSR12s for example. Maybe you could have gotten the JBLs to sound better, but I wasn't able to.

At any rate, I should just not comment on my experiences in these matters and just leave it to you guys.  It's worth noting though that plenty of guys who actually are engineers and know a hell of a lot more than I do agree with me about 15s over 18s.  Probably this is generally referring to mid grade 2 way boxes though.

[Eugen Jeličić]

Well that has not been my experience.  I have tried 15" 2 way tops and didn't find them to be as clear and "Sweet" sounding over 18" subs as my 12" tops.  JBL PRX425s do not sound as good for vocals and electric guitar as DSR12s for example. Maybe you could have gotten the JBLs to sound better, but I wasn't able to.

At any rate, I should just not comment on my experiences in these matters and just leave it to you guys.  It's worth noting though that plenty of guys who actually are engineers and know a hell of a lot more than I do agree with me about 15s over 18s.  Probably this is generally referring to mid grade 2 way boxes though.

That's a very interesting statement actually since the PRX boxes are not a cheap crap dual 15. And yes i kind of agree with you. A 12' is more agile and will sound more refined. But i'm buying something used to get a better bang for the buck. And from these 3 options one of them is that i can get this nice brand new EV TX1152. But as soon as i asked about it i was told... you are comparing a new fiat punto with a used maserati. (Talking about RCF 6000 vs EV TX1152). Witch i don't know what to think about since in a locak club i heard 4 of those TX1152's and they really sounded great + They have no problems running a full club with 500 people using just those 4 boxes and 4 18's properly amped. Yes i know that EV i still a 15, but it's a single 15 with a nice powerfull tweeter and guys who worked with it really like it's sound.

[ProSoundWeb Community]