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Author Topic: Forget Soldering!  (Read 14730 times)

Thomas Lamb

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 09:02:10 AM »

http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/xlr/dl-series/nc3md-s-1-b
http://www.redco.com/Neutrik-NC3MD-S-1-B.html

Now I can screw it in!  ;D

I think that's great for say a church install where you are putting a couple of connections in the ceiling for choir Mics using a lift or any area where it's a tight space to get yourself and an iron. Mechanical connections have advantages too.
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Matthew Knischewsky

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2015, 09:34:52 AM »

I would be fine if someone came up with a nice crimping system for XLR terminations.

I would welcome a reliable crimping solution, especially if it came from Neutrik. I've had plenty of reliability issues with the Amphenol version. The ones I've seen use the the shell and the boot to hold the connection in place which makes them unacceptable
for me.

Doing installs I have to carry enough tools to cover 3 or 4 trades…An electrician's hand tools, everything a comm/data installer uses, carpenter's tools PLUS all the different connectors and wire we use. Some data guys look at me like I have 2 heads when I pull out the soldering iron to make connections in the rack. I would leave my iron in the truck if I could.

Also, use of a soldering iron generates heat and smoke which in some situations is undesirable. To solder at a couple of locations I've had to apply for "hot work" permits, have a fire extinguisher within arms reach, have some one standing by on fire watch, calls into different departments to let them know when the work is beginning/ending…I could have used some crimps/screw terminals on those days.

Matt
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Thomas Le

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2015, 10:04:11 AM »

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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2015, 10:12:54 AM »

I put the same argument out over IDC connectors a couple of months ago.  Learned a lot on the long term reliability, they still make me nervous.

For panels, if you dressed it nice, cut all the wires the same length and provided stress relief it could be OK. 

To me it lowers the bar, the person drawn to these is likely to be someone looking to cut corners or otherwise take the easy way out.

Debbie surely doesn't fit into that category so my stereotyping make be way off, as it usually is.
;).  Thanks Scott- I do agree with you though that this could be considered the easy route for some folks who might make compromises.  When I ordered mine, I fully expected to solder them as I do all audio connections but obviously didn't pay attention when I made the purchase. I hadn't purchased this type of product since I left the UK so I suppose when they arrived, I figured this was the norm here and just went ahead and installed them.
However, as you all know, my rig is mobile and although I use my powered system more these days, my amp rack has had a fair amount of use and those connections are holding strong....
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Richard Turner

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2015, 10:14:09 AM »

I ended up with a rapco snake that had fantail end done with the amphenol no solder ends..... ended up soldering most of them.

Been in a few situations repairing wall mount XLR after user abuse. Screw terminal XLR for replacment would have been faster for service calls. I wouldn't accept them on something being moved arouns but fixed install why not. Lead solder is supposedly toxic....
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2015, 01:09:39 PM »

http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/xlr/dl-series/nc3md-s-1-b
http://www.redco.com/Neutrik-NC3MD-S-1-B.html

Now I can screw it in!  ;D

I remember buying a non-soldered Peavey multicore in 1994.  It withstood being thrown on top of the rest of the stuff in the van, uncased, surprisingly well!

It looked a lot like this one, but I noticed Peavey now lists "soldered connections" as an item on the feature list.

http://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/880/117012/PV%26reg%3B164Snake100%27XLRReturns
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2015, 01:20:00 PM »

Crimp contacts have been standard in D-sub and various circular military connectors for ages.  If done correctly, they can be very reliable.  But that involves fairly expensive tools with specific dies for each contact and validating the crimps with pull force testers.  Not the sort of things you'll find in most SR shop workbenches.  These are not the same kinds of crimp contacts and tools you'd find in the Molex type connectors you'd find in your car or a PC.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2015, 01:25:48 PM »

In my day job dealing frequently with industrial electronics, I deal with screw, solder, idc, crimp, and WAGO style "spring clamp" type connections on small signal wires.  Most connection failures that I find are a result of wire breakage from fatigue(or damage).  Rarely is it a loose screw, etc-sometimes you will find a bad crimp or an IDC connection that was not fully seated-but usually when the install is good the connectors are fine.  Wire fatigue happens on soldered connections just as easily as any of the others.

On larger, power wire connections, it is common to find loose screws from heat/cooling-but that is an entirely different problem.
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Steve Swaffer

Tom Roche

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2015, 04:31:19 PM »

Crimp contacts have been standard in D-sub and various circular military connectors for ages.  If done correctly, they can be very reliable.  But that involves fairly expensive tools with specific dies for each contact and validating the crimps with pull force testers.  Not the sort of things you'll find in most SR shop workbenches.  These are not the same kinds of crimp contacts and tools you'd find in the Molex type connectors you'd find in your car or a PC.

I agree.  I've had my share of working on multi-pin connectors on high-tech avionics and fighter jets.  We had pin kits the size of a suitcase full of the best tools for working on connectors.  The right tools, training and high standards equaled high reliability.

I was also trained to solder to NASA standards in which every solder joint was viewed under microscope before being approved.  Crimp or solder, each method has a time & place ... no one size fits all.

I'm intrigued by the IDC XLR connectors and wonder how they hold up over the long haul.  I soldered 32 XLR channels and 8 returns into a church stage.  IIRC, the stage had six pockets.  I had no extra cable length and had to solder most of the connections in the pockets.  IDC would have been great to have.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2015, 01:23:40 AM »

I agree.  I've had my share of working on multi-pin connectors on high-tech avionics and fighter jets.  We had pin kits the size of a suitcase full of the best tools for working on connectors.  The right tools, training and high standards equaled high reliability.

I was also trained to solder to NASA standards in which every solder joint was viewed under microscope before being approved.  Crimp or solder, each method has a time & place ... no one size fits all.

I'm intrigued by the IDC XLR connectors and wonder how they hold up over the long haul.  I soldered 32 XLR channels and 8 returns into a church stage.  IIRC, the stage had six pockets.  I had no extra cable length and had to solder most of the connections in the pockets.  IDC would have been great to have.

IDC crimps I would jump on the bandwagon in a heart beat.  Certainly they are the norm in data, done properly very acceptable.

When I was all over IDC's in a previous post it was the finicky PC board type. 

For shear reliability nothing beats a wire wrap to a bifurcated post and solder.

This post was about screw terminals.  Screws back out, wire for screws has to be stripped damaging strands, strands can stick out causing intermittents.  If you thermally stripped, tinned and used a locking treatment on the screw I would be OK.

Thoughts?

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Forget Soldering!
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2015, 01:23:40 AM »


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