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Author Topic: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series  (Read 11818 times)

Josh Dunaway

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Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« on: May 28, 2015, 08:05:43 PM »

So have been doing research about a larger system- I currently have 4 QSC KW152 mains and 4 QSC KW181 subs. I am wanting to be able to do a festival main stage- 1-3k people with a local band. Per QSC they recommend a setup with 4 KW152's stacked on top of 4 KW181's per side with 2 KW181's center stage with fills. This seems like a logical jump to me since I already have half the rig. Has anyone ever tried this? Any thought how this would stack up against a small line array setup (QSC KLA or JBL VRX)?
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Mike Sullivan

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Re: posting rules
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 12:08:07 AM »

So have been doing research about a larger system- I currently have 4 QSC KW152 mains and 4 QSC KW181 subs. I am wanting to be able to do a festival main stage- 1-3k people with a local band. Per QSC they recommend a setup with 4 KW152's stacked on top of 4 KW181's per side with 2 KW181's center stage with fills. This seems like a logical jump to me since I already have half the rig. Has anyone ever tried this? Any thought how this would stack up against a small line array setup (QSC KLA or JBL VRX)?

If this is for a single show I would look into subcontracting/renting.  If you're expecting a genuine 1000-3000+ people and plan on doing several of them, I would make the jump to a larger system designed for that type of crowd.  If the venues and means grant it, then a VRX/KLA rig would probably work, but for 3,000 people with music even a 3-4 box per side system will be pushing it.  I use to own the KW153's, and they were fantastic boxes but the KW series is not designed for larger shows like you are thinking about.

Another thing to consider, on top of the system price, you will need proper power distribution to said rig, as well as a means of getting it high enough in the air to cover the crowd.  Especially a line array, you will need a set of lifts (probably with trussing) or a set of towers, as well as the means to guy them if said events are outdoors.  Costs can go up pretty quick then.
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Michael Thompson

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Re: posting rules
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 12:45:47 AM »

If this is for a single show I would look into subcontracting/renting.  If you're expecting a genuine 1000-3000+ people and plan on doing several of them, I would make the jump to a larger system designed for that type of crowd.  If the venues and means grant it, then a VRX/KLA rig would probably work, but for 3,000 people with music even a 3-4 box per side system will be pushing it.  I use to own the KW153's, and they were fantastic boxes but the KW series is not designed for larger shows like you are thinking about.

Another thing to consider, on top of the system price, you will need proper power distribution to said rig, as well as a means of getting it high enough in the air to cover the crowd.  Especially a line array, you will need a set of lifts (probably with trussing) or a set of towers, as well as the means to guy them if said events are outdoors.  Costs can go up pretty quick then.

Yeah... The KW line in general is REALLY not well suited to this.  I don't see a KLA or VRX getting the job done well either.  I'm personally not a fan of small line arrays because they don't have enough length to actually function like a line source at lower frequencies, so I would suggest you look at trap boxes that have narrower patterns and can be arrayed in a 3 or more wide fashion.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 12:55:11 AM »

That's an interesting picture.  Not quite sure I would do it like that.

First off, with 75 degree horns putting cabinets side by side will create a lot of interference and comb filtering.  Granted the QSC horn isn't really 75 all the way up, but in the midrange it will still make trouble.  So if you splay them out, you're talking about a 150 degree coverage on each side.  Fine if there are people out to the sides.  Also, while it will cause the same issues, if you vertically stack cabinets with one inverted you want the HF units to be physically closer together.  The interferences will be less obvious and may even be tolerable further out.

I would also string the subs out along the front of the stage.  This will create a bunch of backwash onto the stage but will at least create more even coverage out in front without distinct "power alleys".

For a few gigs a summer, I wouldn't invest in additional boxes (particularly tops) that result in a compromised system.  To make the jump to larger gigs, like Mike said, you need a system designed for that in the first place.  The old pile-o-boxes went out in the '80s.
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Josh Dunaway

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 05:15:43 AM »

That's an interesting picture.  Not quite sure I would do it like that.

First off, with 75 degree horns putting cabinets side by side will create a lot of interference and comb filtering.  Granted the QSC horn isn't really 75 all the way up, but in the midrange it will still make trouble.  So if you splay them out, you're talking about a 150 degree coverage on each side.  Fine if there are people out to the sides.  Also, while it will cause the same issues, if you vertically stack cabinets with one inverted you want the HF units to be physically closer together.  The interferences will be less obvious and may even be tolerable further out.

I would also string the subs out along the front of the stage.  This will create a bunch of backwash onto the stage but will at least create more even coverage out in front without distinct "power alleys".

For a few gigs a summer, I wouldn't invest in additional boxes (particularly tops) that result in a compromised system.  To make the jump to larger gigs, like Mike said, you need a system designed for that in the first place.  The old pile-o-boxes went out in the '80s.

Stephen, the KW152 is a 60° box- not that it makes a huge difference.

If I were to make the jump and purchase 10 KLA12's (5per side- the max recommended) would that hold its own? Any suggestions what other directions to look?

I plan to make doing show's of this size a regular occurrence- so if at all possible I'd like to buy.

That being said how would using the 10 KW181's stack up against 4 of the new JBL SRX828sp's?
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Bob Faulkner

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2015, 05:50:05 AM »

Try keeping the subs in the center (i.e. lined up along the front of the stage).  This is a more efficient use of the subs and you get the advantage of coupling.  Having the subs far left and far right (like in the picture) creates a huge "power alley" and leaves dead-space in the seating areas.

I believe the KLA and and VRX lines are considered constant-curvature arrays.  You may not be able to adjust the array elements to accommodate the area.
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Scott Slater

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2015, 06:00:41 AM »

For 10 KLAs you will be forking out some good money, so why not look at something like a Danley SH50s with some TH118s as subs.  No cranes, no trusses, less space, and an easier deployment.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 06:05:22 AM »

For 10 KLAs you will be forking out some good money, so why not look at something like a Danley SH50s with some TH118s as subs.  No cranes, no trusses, less space, and an easier deployment.
Damn, I wanted to be the first person to suggest Danley. 

How much area do 3000 people in festival situation take up? Football field size? Other posts have suggested that even just 2 SM80s would cover that. I would imagine 2 SH50s a side (to get enough horizontal coverage)would be more than enough. 4 boxes vs 10
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 06:13:50 AM by Scott Olewiler »
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 07:32:40 AM »

3000 people outdoors- no MI grade pile of speakers, no constant curvature arrays even will work well.  Even SM80's, which we tuned outdoors this week, would be pushing it. 

Something like SH46's, 3 per side on scaffolding, over TH118 or DBH subs, could work well.  And would have headroom so you wouldn't be running solid into the limiters. 

Fewer high quality trumps lots of low quality.

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Ken Braziel

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Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 11:09:21 AM »

Stephen, the KW152 is a 60° box- not that it makes a huge difference.

If I were to make the jump and purchase 10 KLA12's (5per side- the max recommended) would that hold its own? Any suggestions what other directions to look?

I plan to make doing show's of this size a regular occurrence- so if at all possible I'd like to buy.

That being said how would using the 10 KW181's stack up against 4 of the new JBL SRX828sp's?

I've used KLA's for a show this size, 2,500 people in a grassy field. Two per side with four subs. But: it was an Americana show, second stage, so small acoustic acts. It was plenty of power for that situation (and carried much further across the field than the Meyer MLS boxes on the main stage - not line-array).

Unfortunately the KLA's are fixed-angle, so five will give you a big curve that would only be appropriate if the audience is on an angle upward from the stage. Three per side is probably the max that is useful for a flat field.

Edit: I agree that the setup you described won't work well - the KW's are great for near-field shows, but they don't project very far. The KLA's DO project over a distance similar to more advanced line-array systems, I've used them quite a bit in situations where we need to cover a large area.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 11:17:28 AM by Ken Braziel »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Medium Sized Outdoors Gig Using QSC KW Series
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 11:09:21 AM »


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