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Author Topic: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v  (Read 14276 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2015, 11:59:34 AM »

If you're running power distro, powering the amps at 240 volts gives you a few advantages.

1. You can use smaller gauge power cables to get the same result. 
2. If you are supplying power to your amp rack from more than one phase of the distro, you can use only 2 legs and a ground. There's no need for the neutral conductor.
3. No neutral connector means your amps won't fry if the neutral line gets disconnected for some reason.

The disadvantage of running at 240v is that you now have to find 240v.  In some venues, where only regular outlets are available, it could be challenging.  However, since the amps can run at a full range of voltage, all you need is a set of secondary power cords to plug the amps into regular outlets.  Piece of cake.
Some places may only  have 208 between legs.

Since the supply is "universal" it should (I am not certain however) be fine on 208V.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2015, 10:07:12 PM »

I am going to get slammed again however subjectively my XTI's (4002 and 6002) have more balls and seem to be running more "effortlessly" than when connect to 110vac.

What I think is the current storage system recharges quicker so the time between peak availability is less.
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Richard Turner

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 12:08:34 AM »

That is the connector-not the power cable.

I don't know what size cable is included with the unit-but 45Amps would be around a 5 ga cable-which is a pretty good sized cable.

I doubt the cable is that large-but could be wrong.

most electrical codes accept 6 ga aluminum or 8 ga copper for 50 amp circuits
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2015, 01:38:48 AM »

Some places may only  have 208 between legs.

Since the supply is "universal" it should (I am not certain however) be fine on 208V.

As far as I am aware, all Powersoft up through the K series are 1 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground.  They are "universal" standard voltage for household/office, 100v, 120v, 240v. 
The X series can be run polyphase.
Perhaps someone from Powersoft can elaborate?

Lee
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2015, 07:18:32 AM »

As far as I am aware, all Powersoft up through the K series are 1 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground.  They are "universal" standard voltage for household/office, 100v, 120v, 240v. 
The X series can be run polyphase.
Perhaps someone from Powersoft can elaborate?

Lee
If the amp can accept 240 volts, it's not one hot, one neutral, but simply two input legs. For a two-wire device (not counting the ground conductor), the only difference between 240v and 208v power is the amplitude - the 120 degree phase angle of the 3-phase 208v supply vs 180 degree phase angle of the 240v supply is not seen by the load; it is "cancelled out", for lack of a better term. All the load sees is 240v 60Hz in the case of a single phase supply, or 208v 60Hz in the case of a three phase supply.

We are overthinking this.

-240v or 208v is always preferable for amps that support it.
- the supply current requirement DECREASES when fed from. 208/240v supply, so if the amp's cord is adequate for 120v, it will be more than adequate for 208/240.
- the Powersoft amps have a CPC 45A connector on the back of the amp, and a "region-specific power cord". Getting a second of these cords allows you to put a plug such as a L14-30, L6-30, of whatever is appropriate for your disto system. My personal solution is using Powercon connectors which are multi-voltage rated.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2015, 07:25:06 AM »

most electrical codes accept 6 ga aluminum or 8 ga copper for 50 amp circuits
That is still a large cable
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2015, 07:40:21 AM »

If the amp can accept 240 volts, it's not one hot, one neutral, but simply two input legs.
Unless it's in most of the rest of the world which isn't the US.
Our standard power is three phase with 230v from each leg to neutral.
 
Steve.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2015, 07:54:27 AM »

If the amp can accept 240 volts, it's not one hot, one neutral, but simply two input legs. For a two-wire device (not counting the ground conductor), the only difference between 240v and 208v power is the amplitude - the 120 degree phase angle of the 3-phase 208v supply vs 180 degree phase angle of the 240v supply is not seen by the load; it is "cancelled out", for lack of a better term. All the load sees is 240v 60Hz in the case of a single phase supply, or 208v 60Hz in the case of a three phase supply.

We are overthinking this.

-240v or 208v is always preferable for amps that support it.
- the supply current requirement DECREASES when fed from. 208/240v supply, so if the amp's cord is adequate for 120v, it will be more than adequate for 208/240.
- the Powersoft amps have a CPC 45A connector on the back of the amp, and a "region-specific power cord". Getting a second of these cords allows you to put a plug such as a L14-30, L6-30, of whatever is appropriate for your disto system. My personal solution is using Powercon connectors which are multi-voltage rated.

I have been directly told by amp/speaker manufacturers that while it is true that the amps will draw less current they will not run the connected load as efficiently.  Some self-powered speakers and some amps are more efficiently powered with 120/240 than they are from 2 legs of 208v.  So, in the U.S. they prefer a 120v operation unless a true 240 volt is available although they will operate with a 208v, 3 phase.
JBL DPDA modules are one of these.  They can run on 2 hot legs from a 3 phase, 208 system.  You get the benefits of smaller cable size and lower current draw, you don't get full performance because...the cabinets switch to operating in 240v mode even at 208.  This means that, fed 208 you are not feeding the power supplies with as high a voltage as you would if you fed them from true 240v.  You hurt nothing but they underperform.  This was directly told to me by JBL.  Outside of the U.S. In 240 volt countries this means that a single 240 volt hot is required for 1 hot, 1 neutral operation (with K series, DPDA, others that operate similarly) for most of these amps.  They can't be run polyphase in those countries.
X series Powersoft will run at up to 440v in single phase, bi-phase (Powersoft's words, not mine) or 3 phase, 85v - 440v.

I have a question in to Powersoft about the K amps to get a more definitive answer.

Lee
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 08:45:32 AM by Lee Buckalew »
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2015, 08:37:37 AM »

Outside of the U.S. this means that a 3 phase, 240 volt system is required for 1 hot, 1 neutral operation (with K series, DPDA, others that operate similarly) for most of these amps.
In the UK (at least) even if a venue only has a single phase supply, it will be one leg of a three phase supply with a centre tapped neutral (we don't have anything else).

or 3 phase, 85v - 440v.
Do they have three phase power input?  Running on our 415v 3 phase would be the ultimate power supply for them!

EDIT:  I have just looked at their website.  That really is a comprehensive power input.  I suppose the most efficient US connection would be two 120v legs from a two phase system.
 

Steve.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 08:45:30 AM by Steve M Smith »
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2015, 08:42:39 AM »

In the UK (at least) even if a venue only has a single phase supply, it will be one leg of a three phase supply with a centre tapped neutral (we don't have anything else).


Steve.

I probably said it in a confusing way but, what I meant was, 1 -240v hot plus a neutral are utilized.  Polyphase connection is not an option (outside of the U.S.) with most manufacturers amps.

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Re: Powersoft amps running on 220v/240v
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2015, 08:42:39 AM »


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