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[Tim McCulloch]

The average lounger does not have the ability to do live side by side speaker comparisons in the field, or get to the show 4 hrs early so they can tune their tops over subs speaker set-up, or can afford to buy $300 microphones to fix a minor issue. Yet these are the types of things being suggested to guys who just want to make sure the little bit of money they do have to spend on their band's PA is not wasted.

The average Lounger who lives within a 2 hour drive of a major city does a self-disservice by not making as many comparisons as possible, just like anyone spending more money. The critical nature of $300 is proportionately similar to those risking $3k, $30k or $300k in larger operations and believe me, we don't want to screw that up, either.

I think what frustrates many of the more experienced advice givers is the n00b expectation or hope that there is a magic bullet product out there - speaker, mic, amp - that costs under US$100 and lasts forever while being flogged with abuse.  I don't find it cruel, in and of itself, to correct those thoughts.

It's unpopular to tell someone that their $300 budget for a subwoofer is duff, but is it better to let them waste their $300 when the product will not perform to expectations or suffer premature cabinet or speaker failure?  We often see "save another $200 and get XYZ" as a suggestion and I think the spirit of that is well intentioned even if the OP doesn't think so.

Believe me, I know what it's like to be at the Lounge level.  I started there, too, but had enough engineering chops to realize that the packaged speaker systems of 35 years ago were not equal to the tasks I had so I built my system from the ground up. Today much of that has changed.  It's much easier to make good sound with smaller, lighter and cheaper gear than when I started.  Unfortunately it's still easy to make bad sound, too.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

The average Lounger who lives within a 2 hour drive of a major city does a self-disservice by not making as many comparisons as possible, just like anyone spending more money. The critical nature of $300 is proportionately similar to those risking $3k, $30k or $300k in larger operations and believe me, we don't want to screw that up, either.

I think what frustrates many of the more experienced advice givers is the n00b expectation or hope that there is a magic bullet product out there - speaker, mic, amp - that costs under US$100 and lasts forever while being flogged with abuse.  I don't find it cruel, in and of itself, to correct those thoughts.

It's unpopular to tell someone that their $300 budget for a subwoofer is duff, but is it better to let them waste their $300 when the product will not perform to expectations or suffer premature cabinet or speaker failure?  We often see "save another $200 and get XYZ" as a suggestion and I think the spirit of that is well intentioned even if the OP doesn't think so.

Believe me, I know what it's like to be at the Lounge level.  I started there, too, but had enough engineering chops to realize that the packaged speaker systems of 35 years ago were not equal to the tasks I had so I built my system from the ground up. Today much of that has changed.  It's much easier to make good sound with smaller, lighter and cheaper gear than when I started.  Unfortunately it's still easy to make bad sound, too.

Yep.

Much of life is balancing the short term vs. the long term.  We have several time horizons that frequently make appearances here:

- The "I bought this thing last week, is it any good" group
- The "I just got a revolving credit card at GC for $2000 and I need to buy gear for a 1000 people EDM event on Saturday" group
- The "We just formed a band and will be playing at small bars and don't intend to go beyond that" group
- The "I'm interested in starting a sound company and have some money now but hope to grow in the future" group

The first group is already living in the past, wanting affirmation for a decision they already made.  The second group is doomed to fail in the immediate future and is likely beyond help.  The third group and fourth groups are the ones where some good advice can really make a difference, and represent the best of the Lounge.

[Bill McIntosh]

...

I think what frustrates many of the more experienced advice givers is the n00b expectation or hope that there is a magic bullet product out there - speaker, mic, amp - that costs under US$100 and lasts forever while being flogged with abuse.  I don't find it cruel, in and of itself, to correct those thoughts.

It's unpopular to tell someone that their $300 budget for a subwoofer is duff, but is it better to let them waste their $300 when the product will not perform to expectations or suffer premature cabinet or speaker failure?  We often see "save another $200 and get XYZ" as a suggestion and I think the spirit of that is well intentioned even if the OP doesn't think so.

...

I don't often see any of the experienced folks here presenting unreasonable advice -- a $300 single mic is out of the budget, but by following some discussions I bought SM58 instead of PG58.  And I have been tipped toward some real bargains -- Alto Trusonic monitors, EV PL-84 mics -- vetted by the techs that mix for Bands You Have Heard Of.

The worst verbal beat-downs here are consistently done when someone insists on throwing money at the situation instead of doing analysis to understand what is needed.

Simple example:  the band was having out-of-character feedback on one guitar cab at a new venue.  Instead of deciding I needed a Kill-O-Zap feedback eliminator, or a new mic, or whatever, I just moved the mic to the other side of the cab aimed at the second driver.  Feedback gone with no other changes, not even channel EQ. 

My sound business does not pay the family bills, but it does pay for itself.  And I believe I should be a professional including continuous learning, regardless of the size of my rig or gig.

Reading here and applying the information to my own situation helps me raise my professionalism. 

[Tom Roche]

It's unpopular to tell someone that their $300 budget for a subwoofer is duff, but is it better to let them waste their $300 when the product will not perform to expectations or suffer premature cabinet or speaker failure?

While you do your best to help, I discovered long ago that some people only learn by doing it the hard/costly way. 

I'm reminded of the posts here asking for "advice" and it turns out the person only wanted validation for a prior purchase or decision.  It's nice to help those who are eager to learn and appreciative of advice, but sometimes one must just move on.  Someone I know owns a Kustom PA Profile 200, one of those all-in-one systems that sells for ~$300 at MF/Banjo Center.  He's convinced the speakers are a true line array because each little cabinet contains two 6.5" woofers that sandwich a piezo driver. 

[Simon Hutson]

- The "We just formed a band and will be playing at small bars and don't intend to go beyond that" group

I sort of fall into this category, and I can say that the direct and indirect help from everyone has enabled me to make informed choices about my purchases. Most of the time the MI equipment I buy doesn't register on the radar of the pros here, but I figure out something new almost every day by reading, learning, and asking the occasional question. I enjoy following regulars such as Ivan, Tim, Bob, Mike, Scott, Rob, Mike, Mark, Mac, Ray & Dick and thank you all for the time you put in contributing to the forum.

[ProSoundWeb Community]