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Author Topic: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight  (Read 11879 times)

Bob Leonard

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2015, 11:47:15 AM »

Appears that the BE wanted the "memorable" parts of the songs out front. Most people don't relate to the bands organ player or piano, but push the opening riff to "Sweet home Alabama down into the mix and you'll have a riot on your hands. I hope it wasn't as bad as Benetar's mix where the only thing you'll hear is hubbys 6 string. Now that's a suck mix to say the least, and an act I won't go see anymore.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Bob Leonard

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2015, 11:52:59 AM »

Jamin,

I've noticed the same thing many times as well. It's almost as it some of these "older" acts are OK with the stage mix but don't give a flying fuck about what the public hears. Just looking for some retirement money I guess, but the BE should at least take some pride in the mix. A bad mix drives me shithouse, especially when I'm paying to hear it, but sadly the waterbags are happy with low end thump and the sound they brought with them in their heads.
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BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2015, 12:43:41 PM »

116dbC at 100' outside? I'd  be wearing plugs or leaving. And it sounded like it was clean. I'll have to give it a listen on my Mac later. Were you using DBH218's for subs?
I've been thinking that my SM80s and subs could replace the JBL 10 box a side LA that we rent for 5 or 6 "name" rock acts we get every year. With those figures, they could do it with headroom to spare. Unfortunately, the bands and probably management here would think I'm insane.
The subs were BC218s-end to end.

We wanted the most rejection to the rear of the speaker placement.

Loud low bass is what EDM type events look for.

The whole idea is to feel it in your body.  The highs are there just to keep the bass from being so boring.

I had the system limited to 1/2 power (typically what I do for these types of shows), because the DJs just like to keep turning it up and up and-----------
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

John L Nobile

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2015, 01:40:08 PM »

When I recently saw Skynyrd and ZZTop the sound was total crap. 10,000 seat arena. It was an Outline GTO system. I believe 12 boxes per side. I was parked just in front of mix position. There was KICK DRUM FROM HELL, and that was about it. Vocals were very thin and tinny sounding and hardly in the mix. I struggled to hear any of the lead solos. I did walk around a bit to see if it was better somewhere else....only got worse.


That's the complete opposite of what I heard. No kick, lead vox and guitars in your face. Only time that I thought the lead vox may have been too loud. But if you leave out the drums and bass you have lots of space for vox and guitars.
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John L Nobile

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2015, 02:21:11 PM »

The subs were BC218s-end to end.

We wanted the most rejection to the rear of the speaker placement.

Loud low bass is what EDM type events look for.

The whole idea is to feel it in your body.  The highs are there just to keep the bass from being so boring.

I had the system limited to 1/2 power (typically what I do for these types of shows), because the DJs just like to keep turning it up and up and-----------

Just saw the BC218 on your site a few weeks ago. I'd love to hear a pair of those. Wondering how many dbl 18 front loaded boxes you'd need to keep up.
I think you have to get more info out for these boxes. Does placing them end to end give you a cardioid pattern without any loss of level?
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Brook Hovland

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2015, 02:33:39 PM »

I dont think it takes a great PA for a band to sound great or a crappy PA for a band to sound crappy. A good engineer is often able to work wonders with reasonable gear and source material.
The last several times I have seen LS, the sound was horrible and the systems were top notch.

Disclaimer... I am a butcher, not a chef! 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2015, 03:13:52 PM »

Just saw the BC218 on your site a few weeks ago. I'd love to hear a pair of those. Wondering how many dbl 18 front loaded boxes you'd need to keep up.
I think you have to get more info out for these boxes. Does placing them end to end give you a cardioid pattern without any loss of level?
As far as "keeping up" it depends on what freq you are talking about.

The BC218s go much lower than other 2x18s-so at the lower freq, it would take a lot more.

But to have some "working numbers" (within the normal operating range of most 2x18 front loaded cabinets) you would be looking around 8 or so for each BC218.

Down at 25Hz, easily double that number.

In this case we had a single EDA12K amp driving the cabinets (1 cabinet per side.).  Since the impedance of each cabinet is 4 ohms, there was around 4000 watts available to each cabinet.

The drivers used are actually 4 ohms-but due to the extreme horn loading, the impedance the amp "sees" is actually double what would normally be expected in a simple ported box.

Because of the design and the large frontal area it is simple physical boundary cancellation instead of electrical.

The amount of cancellation depends on freq (like everything else).

At 80Hz it is 20dB front to back.  At 50hz it is 8dB.

The BC218 has a couple of options you can use them in.  There are advantages to each setup.

In the "end to end" you get more front to rear cancellation and lower extension.  But the setup is 10' wide.  This may be to large for some setups.

When they are stacked in the "normal" setup (not as shown below), the width and height is 5' each.  You get a bit more punch out of this setup.  But it does not go as low or have as much rear rejection.

If you want some SERIOUS rejection and low freq output, you can stack 4 like this :) 

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

John L Nobile

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2015, 04:21:16 PM »

Impressive. So that 4 cab stack in the pic would replace at least 32 dbl 18's? Or (gasp) 64 if you need them to go down to 25 hz? Sounds like you'd save a lot of money in truck space, amps, wiring and labor. And time. 
I wish your speakers would catch on in SR companies so that I could get a chance to hear your other offerings.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2015, 04:51:40 PM »

Impressive. So that 4 cab stack in the pic would replace at least 32 dbl 18's? Or (gasp) 64 if you need them to go down to 25 hz? Sounds like you'd save a lot of money in truck space, amps, wiring and labor. And time. 
I wish your speakers would catch on in SR companies so that I could get a chance to hear your other offerings.
Those 4 cabinets can be run off of any of the "big dog" amps that can handle a 2 ohm load.  So smaller racks-speaker cables etc.

One thing that people fail to understand (until it happens to them), that you simply cannot simply "keep adding cabinets" without "issues" starting to come up.

Let's say that you want to simply put all the "required equivalent" number of subs.  Where are you going to put them?

If you line them up, they will form a "sideways line array" and the pattern will start to narrow up.

That may be fine.  But if you need wide coverage-this is a REAL problem.

Yes you can add progressive delay, but this requires additional delays-careful wiring etc, but that still introduces additional problems.

With a strong single source of "sub energy", the sound radiates out equally-which means more even coverage.

ANYTIME, with ANY loudspeaker, when you start to add more of them-they will start to interfere and cause various "problems" with the sound.

It is FAR better to use a SINGLE loudspeaker (full range or sub) than multiples, if possible.

If you simply think of sound like "pebbles in a pond" you will quickly realize that a SINGLE pebble makes "prettier" ripples-unless you like chaos--------

Of course a LARGE pebble makes larger pretty ripples :) than multiple smaller pebbles.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Micheal Schriner

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Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2015, 06:38:04 PM »

Too bad to hear about the bad mixes. My mom and dad seen Skynyrd several times before their crash and said they were always known for top notch sound for that time. I saw them with ZZ Top at an local arena around 2000 and sound was real good were I was. On a side note I seen Blackberry Smoke recently and they had a real good mix. My wife even commented they sounded just like their cd.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd tonight
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2015, 06:38:04 PM »


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