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[Tim Perry]

My plan is to use Mix 9 as a sub-woofer mix.  I'm thinking I only need to send Kick, Bass Guitar, and possibly Keys to the sub.

Don't forget break music.

Questions:

1.  Should I roll off the lows on the main mix to the PRX-712s using the Qu-16's GEQ?  The sub-woofer's internal crossover is at 90Hz.  The Qu-16's GEQ has bands at 31, 40, 63, 80, 100, etc.  What amounts (if any) should I have of these in the main mix?

Personally, I use a separate processor / X-over  when i do this with my active rig. 
In other words L/R out to X-over to tops. Mono or aux out to subs. 

[Douglas R. Allen]

12db octave

The Yamaha 01v96 has the same slope. I use this low cut to use as a built in crossover. I assign all channels to a bus or 2 when stereo. Add a low cut filter of 100hz to the bus. Then assign the bus to the L/R with a 100hz low cut filter on it as well. This gives me a 100hz high pass. 24 dbs down at 50hz. This looks and works a lot like a L/R filter.

This makes it handy for brief case shows when I bring my mixer to use with someones pa that may have problems. I have 2 filters setup that I can use on an Aux to Sub output to get very close to a 100hz high cut. With the above 100hz low cut on the mains and 100hz high cut on an Aux I have a basic setup ready to go with no crossover needed. Delay for alignment in the Aux send or L/R send as needed.

By using the bus and L/R lowcut  I can decide at what freq I need a low cut at. Have some powered subs with a 80hz high cut? Just bring the tops down to 80hz. No subs just some tops? Add a 50hz low cut an amp may not have. Very handy all in all.

Douglas R. Allen

[Mark Wilkinson]

The Yamaha 01v96 has the same slope. I use this low cut to use as a built in crossover. I assign all channels to a bus or 2 when stereo. Add a low cut filter of 100hz to the bus. Then assign the bus to the L/R with a 100hz low cut filter on it as well. This gives me a 100hz high pass. 24 dbs down at 50hz. This looks and works a lot like a L/R filter.

Do you think this works if you're board limited to 12 db/octave high pass?
Thx,  mark

[Douglas R. Allen]

Do you think this works if you're board limited to 12 db/octave high pass?
Thx,  mark

Depends in part what you have for tops and what slope the subs have. I remember back in the 70's a 12db electronic crossover was not all that uncommon. I'd want a steeper slope if your running 10 inch woofers for the tops. Sad to say it but "It Depends" really is the correct answer. What do you have for a speaker system and board now?

Douglas R. Allen

[Mark Wilkinson]

Depends in part what you have for tops and what slope the subs have. I remember back in the 70's a 12db electronic crossover was not all that uncommon. I'd want a steeper slope if your running 10 inch woofers for the tops. Sad to say it but "It Depends" really is the correct answer. What do you have for a speaker system and board now?

Douglas R. Allen

Thx, Yes I can easily see how it depends....

I guess i was asking because I've been looking for a remote controlled digital mixer, that I could use HP and LP filters to effect a xover. This is more for playing around and learning phase alignment right from mix position, that for any real legitimate purpose.

The gear I'm aligning is good ole venerable labhorns with either meyer upa-1p's,  or mts4a's when i want more throw.  The mts4a's are full range,  so when i shut their bass down in favor of more bass from the labhorns, I like to make  xover pretty steep. Maybe i just want a remote Xover....

[Douglas R. Allen]

Thx, Yes I can easily see how it depends....

I guess i was asking because I've been looking for a remote controlled digital mixer, that I could use HP and LP filters to effect a xover. This is more for playing around and learning phase alignment right from mix position, that for any real legitimate purpose.

The gear I'm aligning is good ole venerable labhorns with either meyer upa-1p's,  or mts4a's when i want more throw.  The mts4a's are full range,  so when i shut their bass down in favor of more bass from the labhorns, I like to make  xover pretty steep. Maybe i just want a remote Xover....

Drifting from the Aux sub thread...    but the X32 line has an X32 Rack that has the same features as I understand it the 32desk does. They have built in crossover filters that can be used via Aux outs. The rack is around $1,199 or so U.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaYZxfHym6k

https://www.google.com/search?q=X32+RACK&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Douglas R. Allen

[Douglas R. Allen]

Thx, Yes I can easily see how it depends....

I guess i was asking because I've been looking for a remote controlled digital mixer, that I could use HP and LP filters to effect a xover. This is more for playing around and learning phase alignment right from mix position, that for any real legitimate purpose.

The gear I'm aligning is good ole venerable labhorns with either meyer upa-1p's,  or mts4a's when i want more throw.  The mts4a's are full range,  so when i shut their bass down in favor of more bass from the labhorns, I like to make  xover pretty steep. Maybe i just want a remote Xover....

There is the new DriveRack Venu360 with ipad control.  http://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/driverack-venu360


Douglas R. Allen

[Mark Wilkinson]

Thanks for the links...i'll keep my eye on the new driverack.

[Stu McDoniel]

       My problem with aux fed subs at the Lounge level is that it most often implemented incorrectly. Many try this as a way to compensate for not having enough "rig for the gig". They try to get that haystacked low end because they don't have enough subs.  To me, it doesn't sound right and often sounds dis-jointed, like the band is playing through two separate sound systems. One for 80hz and below and one for everything else.

This

[Nils Erickson]

I had a fun gig last night, kind of relevant to this thread.

It was mixing a 6 piece band on the patio of a restaurant for a convention after-party.  The rig, I am sure, looked a little scary for the back patio of this place.  An SRX725 over a TH115 per side.  However, it was a smaller footprint than a tripod, and there were supposed to eventually be up to 300 people, though the patio looked like it would hold 50.

When the band started as people were just coming in, I had the main fader at -10 on the desk, no sub, and mostly vocals, and light keys in the PA.  It was quiet, maybe only 90 dB, C weighted, 20 feet in front of the PA.  They were playing in a restrained manner... we are a team in this regard.

Once people had a couple of drinks and started digging the tunes and dancing, the band played harder, and a couple of other things got added to the mains, like bass and some kick, and some guitar.  The subs came up a bit. We were at around 98 dB, with some small peaks over 100. 

By the end of the evening, everyone was dancing (maybe 50-70 people, with another 150 around the restaurant and outside areas), the subs were up and kicking with keys, bass, kick, and toms in them, and a nice full mix.  100 db, C weighted, from my mix spot 20 feet out or so, with nice bass and kick. The main fader never moved, btw.

The restaurant manager was stoked (and had previously expressed nervousness over the size of the speakers), the audience loved it, the band was happy.  This was easy to do for me with the subs on an aux, perhaps because of how I am used to working.  I wasn't constantly adjusting filters to bring in individual instruments to the subs.  There was no haystack (hard to get that, really, with one sub per side), which I don't like anyway.

Yes, this takes more fine tuning over time and you really have to know your system well to avoid the pitfalls.  And you could do it another way with similar results.  But I do dig have the gas pedal for the subs on a single fader in a situation like this one as I can very quickly add or subtract to what might most bother or make the client happy.

In my estimation, people that make this kind of set up sound disjointed have trouble making things sound natural in the best case scenarios as well.  And perhaps that is what John and Stu are saying as well, regarding the experience level of operators.

Anyway, hopefully that is helpful Alan.  Good luck with your gigs and your system.

Nils

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