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Author Topic: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II  (Read 34335 times)

Sean Stephens

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2015, 03:36:39 AM »

I plan on buying 4 boxes within a month to start and see if i like them.  Its $2100, I'll either get some speakers that sound ok, mainly for the larger outdoor events, or I try and return them or sell on eBay if they are crap.  After that I'll go from there.  If they are good maybe I'll buy more.  Really its the interest thats driving me to purchase them.  I'll upload a video upon arrival with a review.  Ill try to take some smaart readings and post also. 
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David Hayes

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2015, 07:58:51 AM »

Ok, please forgive me if I'm stepping on my $#*^ here.  I am not even close to the same league as you guys when you start talking about all this stuff and I have zero knowledge about flown line arrays, but someone correct me if I'm wrong, aren't SA pretty much the bottom of the barrel?  I started out with a pair of their 12'' 2 way tops and man they were junk.  And Alto?  Maybe not bottom of the barrel but certainly these are near the bottom aren't they?  I use TS112As for monitors but I would never subject an audience to them.   Someone "Corrected" me the other day when I said Peavey made middle of the road, low rent stuff. Is it the same deal?  Do Alto and Seismic Audio have high end lines that actually aren't junk?
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Ray Aberle

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2015, 09:47:49 AM »

Do Alto and Seismic Audio have high end lines that actually aren't junk?

I've not used Alto gear myself, but I BELIEVE that there are people on here that have used some of their gear and been happy for the quality at the price point. Seismic Audio, not so much.

I plan on buying 4 boxes within a month to start and see if i like them. Its $2100, I'll either get some speakers that sound ok, mainly for the larger outdoor events, or I try and return them or sell on eBay if they are crap.  After that I'll go from there.  If they are good maybe I'll buy more.  Really its the interest thats driving me to purchase them.  I'll upload a video upon arrival with a review.  Ill try to take some smaart readings and post also. 

Sean, not sure if you're referring to the Seismic boxes, or the Alto ones; but according to the OP about Alto:

Quote from: OP
Had to post this up , Alto Professional now has a line array rig at low cost I think they see what seismic is doing and want to make some money too. I Wonder what they sound like ? They have a 7.5 Degree vertical dispersion, unlike the seismic having a 50 degree vertical pattern it would qualifiy as a tru line array box. 

Two boxes of Alto per side would only be 15° vertical coverage. The trick with any line array or constant curvature rig, especially for your needs of larger outdoor events, is that you cannot buy them on the Box A Month plan. If you start small (Not Enough Rig For The Gig)... well, you will find it difficult to get more gigs to pay for these additional boxes if you aren't able to provide properly for the gigs now. Clients don't want to hear "Well, it sounds bad now, but once you've hired me for more shows, I'll have the money to buy enough speakers to do your event properly..." Trust me. There won't be more shows.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2015, 09:49:34 AM »

  I use "XYZ speakers" for monitors but I would never subject an audience to them. 

I find this statement really funny.  But funny is a sad way because of how true it is in many cases.

People will often put lots of money in the PA, and then "whatever is left" gets spent on the monitors.  ESPECIALLY in the install world.

"OH-it's just monitors for the band-----"

But should it not be the other way around???????????

Who are the pickiest people?  The MUSICIANS!!!  Yet they get the "cheapest thing we can get away with".

You don't want to "subject a drunk non caring audience" to the sound-but yet for the people actually MAKING the music-it is fine?

Not picking on you-it happens all the time.

It just seems backwards to me-that is all.
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Ivan Beaver
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2015, 09:58:03 AM »

I
Two boxes of Alto per side would only be 15° vertical coverage.
Let's assume the boxes (ANY BRAND OR MODEL NUMBER) are rated at 7.5* each.

And if the horn exit is 12" tall (I have no idea-just a guess there), then it would only be 7.5 down to 11KHZ.  Below that the pattern starts to widen up.

Most people/systems are "gone" by 11Khz anyway.  So what people "think" is a particular pattern is not even close-at least at the freq that they are interested in.

A small narrow horn (no matter HOW MUCH people want to believe it) simply does NOT have pattern control down very low.

So what they "think" they are getting is VERY different (at least in the freq range of interest) than what is REALLY happening or what the spec sheet would lead them to believe.

The basic physics still works :)
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Ivan Beaver
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John L Nobile

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2015, 10:15:21 AM »

I find this statement really funny.  But funny is a sad way because of how true it is in many cases.

People will often put lots of money in the PA, and then "whatever is left" gets spent on the monitors.  ESPECIALLY in the install world.

"OH-it's just monitors for the band-----"

But should it not be the other way around???????????

Who are the pickiest people?  The MUSICIANS!!!  Yet they get the "cheapest thing we can get away with".

You don't want to "subject a drunk non caring audience" to the sound-but yet for the people actually MAKING the music-it is fine?

Not picking on you-it happens all the time.

It just seems backwards to me-that is all.

When I performed I always had a great monitor system. But it was my own. I've never come across a musician that brought a monitor with them. Keyboard players seem to have the worst amps. A 12 inch guitar type cab with a peizo seems to be hi end for them when they really  need a smooth full range box for what their sounds. The only designated keyboard amp I've ever owned was a Leslie.
I finally have very nice monitors and it's been so easy to keep the performers happy with minimum effort. Something to consider when it's time for new boxes. Makes a big part of the job easier.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2015, 11:30:41 AM »

People will often put lots of money in the PA, and then "whatever is left" gets spent on the monitors.

I have similar thoughts about bands touring with an engineer.  If I was in a touring band and had one engineer with me, I would want him on the monitors.


Steve.
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Thomas Le

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2015, 12:21:30 PM »

I plan on buying 4 boxes within a month to start and see if i like them.  Its $2100, I'll either get some speakers that sound ok, mainly for the larger outdoor events, or I try and return them or sell on eBay if they are crap.  After that I'll go from there.  If they are good maybe I'll buy more.  Really its the interest thats driving me to purchase them.  I'll upload a video upon arrival with a review.  Ill try to take some smaart readings and post also.

I'm small peas too when it comes to live sound also but I don't go for the line array bandwagon just because it's the cool thing to do, there's ALOT of work to getting a line array to work, sometimes it's not the right tool for the job. If you're going with that mentality then that's not good. You do know that with line arrays, its not just the speakers; there are lifts, amps, cables, and proper rigging that are the requirements and it's a pretty big investment. $2100? Be prepared to 4x that. Besides, with Alto, I'm guessing they got some off-brand chinese boxes from alibaba and put their branding on it. There's a reason why respected manufacturers like L'acoustics, Meyer, EAW, JBL, etc. have theirs costing so much; they do the R&D from the cabs to the drivers and match them/make from scratch based on their research and provide calculators & prediction software in addition to tunings for DSP.

Ok, please forgive me if I'm stepping on my $#*^ here.  I am not even close to the same league as you guys when you start talking about all this stuff and I have zero knowledge about flown line arrays, but someone correct me if I'm wrong, aren't SA pretty much the bottom of the barrel?  I started out with a pair of their 12'' 2 way tops and man they were junk.  And Alto?  Maybe not bottom of the barrel but certainly these are near the bottom aren't they?  I use TS112As for monitors but I would never subject an audience to them.   Someone "Corrected" me the other day when I said Peavey made middle of the road, low rent stuff. Is it the same deal?  Do Alto and Seismic Audio have high end lines that actually aren't junk?

Wow, why skimp for the musicians then? As for your Peavey statement; Peavey was never high-end, Hartley states that he is for the "working musician" just like Uli. I would put Peavey a bit higher than Behringer but after seeing that Undercover Boss ep, I won't consider their products again (I'll have to find an alternative to their USB-p). For Alto & Seismic Audio, they're purely in the "line array" for the bandwagon hype. Unlike other manufacturers that have extensive tools to help prepare deployment of their products like calculators & prediction software, Alto & Seismic Audio have no backing on their products so you're SOL when it comes for support. Like my previous statement above, I'm guessing they got some off-brand chinese boxes from alibaba and put their branding on it.
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Sean Stephens

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2015, 05:13:03 PM »

I meant the Seismic boxes, SALA series. I have worked with both alto and seismic.  Alto seems like a glorified home speaker as they did stupid things such as put blutooth connections in the speakers.  Seismic however holds up a bit better.  The speakers i was dealing with were just some standard lower end speakers.  They did sound pretty decent but could clearly hear the difference between the speakers i came with and the seismic ones, especially as i did more and more work for these clients. It was almost just the quality of the speakers as a whole was lacking.  The people that owned them were extremely tough on them too, and didn't know much about audio.   After comparing the SALA series to the ones i used it

(http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/pair-of-dual-15-inch-dj-speakers-pa-speakers-band/p/SA-155.2#product-description-text)

I find it apparent that the SALA are superior. They use all birch plywood, and seem to be made with better quality and parts. By no means did the people who owned the Seismic ones dislike them.  They were perfect for their needs.

Also im a bit confused, on the website it states the coverage is 90x15, not 50..

I looked at that guys Facebook a little more in depth.  Yesterday they had a gig at some venue with a band.  The band later posted that they had fun and sounded great.  No complaints there.

Responding to it being a large investment;
by itself yes $2100 is a large investment, add  in the scaffold, 1/2 ton chain hoists, cabling, mounting frame, amps, your looking at $$,$$$. I haven't been able to come even remotely close for what I'm getting for that price.  The D.A.S. event arrays which i was originally looking at (Like comparing Porsches to Fords) are $2500 new and roughly $2000 used per box.  They are active which cuts the cost of amps but still, thats trading one box for four.  I'll be running the Seismic boxes on XTI 4002s (Most likely 2 boxes per amp.  The reason for this and not the 6002s is because the 6002s require a much larger service that would be much harder to provide. 

I started on a LS9, we ran an EV line array in that hall. That was a great setup.  We also used an X-32 & M-32.


Once I start buying new gear I'll probably go presonus.  And once again don't get me wrong, I'm only buying two per side to see if I like the quality.  If thats the case I will quickly buy 4-8 more, not half-a** it and only have 2 boxes per side for some time. 

The reason I am doing a line array is because i can never achieve the proper coverage outdoors. I know very well how much in all this investment is, and for that reason I wanted to try Seismic. I'm still keeping old gear for the smaller things.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 05:44:36 PM by Sean Stephens »
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Thomas Le

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Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2015, 07:22:13 PM »

The thing about SA is that there is NO support, you're going in blind on deployment as there is no calculator/prediction software and they provide no EASE files. The board says No to these but hey, it's your money to burn. If you're that desperate for a "line array", pass up on the gig or try cross-renting from another provider while saving up and buy a real system and invest in training provided by the manufacturer. The other thing about the SALA is we don't know how SAFE & durable the rigging is, if it all comes down, that's a HUGE liability problem.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: ALTO Line Array ? Everybody wants a Line Array Part II
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2015, 07:22:13 PM »


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