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Author Topic: My new Yamaha DSR112s.  (Read 84772 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2015, 03:54:05 PM »

OK…comparison done.

We set up a PRX718xlf  with a DSR112 ……….and right next to it, a SRX718 and a SRX715 using left and right sends to A/B each one.
SRX system crossed through DBX PA+, using XTI 6002 into srx718, XTI6002 into SRX715, XLS2000 into SRX highs (heavily limited - amp too big). The DRPA crosses the system at 90hz I believe which is the JBL tuning for this system as pre-set in the DRPA. The DSR's were set flat with no contour.
I was also careful to get the overall volumes very close and the sub/top balance the same each side.
So- yes, we were comparing a cab designed and processed by the engineers at the factory to my processing BUT I was using as I said, the JBL recommended tuning in the JBL cabs. I also thought it was fairer to use the 3 way set up with the SRX system as the DSR's are using an active crossover.
Bear in mind driver size difference DSR - 12", SRX-15". I figured with so many another variables I didn't worry too much about this difference.

After a quick soundcheck, I reduced down a small amount of the mid freq on the DSR which got it sounding much more like the SRX.

I played my iPod in mono and by the time I had been through a number of tunes, I didn't even bother with instruments as I think I got a pretty good all round idea of what was going on.

I did not have access to the ' The Hunter' but I own some Nora Jones and used one of hers. I played some big band stuff, modern dance, some classic rock, raggae and some ballads.
This is what we found…

We first compared the PRX718xlf to the SRX718 without the tops and were quite shocked to find them very similar. So much so that it was difficult to tell the difference between the 2. I did a blind test with Chris and he found it hard to know which was which. I used a couple of rock songs and a couple of EDM tunes for this. The PRX had a little more of a boomy sound  whereas the SRX was more of a dry thud - but like I say - very close indeed.
I am quite impressed with those PRX subs ….

Here is a list of tunes we played through each stack one by one.

The first song we used was one that puts speakers through their paces quite well….Twinkle Toes by Lyle Lovett and his big band. The snare sounded nicer in the PRX/DSR combo but some of the band instruments were a bit 'honky' through that side. The SRX's tamed the honk and sounded better overall.

Faith- George Michael. The organ intro to the song sounded 'bigger' through the SRX's but more to the forefront and 'middly' through the PRX/DSR combo. Once song got going, the percussive sounds were more pronounced with a little more prescence through the PRX/DSR but vocals were cleaner through the SRX's.

1979 - Smashing Pumpkins - Main difference noted were the vocals. Again - more forward in the mix through the PRX/DSRT and actually a little nicer to our ears. The SRX's sounded somewhat lacking there but we preferred the music through them.

Food for Thought - UB40. The percussion in this one really shone through the DSR's, especially the snare sound. It lacked a little through the SRX's. However, the SRX's were more pleasing to the ears for vocals and overall quality.

Land Downunder (acoustic version) - Colin Hay. The PRX/DSR seemed to bring out the acoustic guitar really well in this one. Sounded good through both.

Gangnam Style. For dance music, the PRX/DSR side came to life a bit and the SRX seemed lifeless.

Moves Like Jagger - again this heavy dance beat music is enhanced through the PRX/DSR combo.

Hotel California - Eagles.  A great tune to sound check a system….. The PRX/DSR side was too middly on this one and sounded a lot better throughout the SRX side. Better separation of instruments and nicer sounding guitars.

Wish I Could - Norah Jones. We both noticed the vocal harmony lines to be more easily distinguished and more present through the PRX/DSR on this one.  However, the cello sounded too bassy through the PRX/DSR.

We continued on with some more tunes and found a trend occurring. The vocal 'push' in the DSR must have had something to do with the 12" speaker compared to the 15". The PRX/DSR sounded a little better overall with the dance music tunes but the SRX had a wonderful transparency throughout all the songs and favored the classic rock songs and ballads.
Although I pulled a little of the mids out of the DSR's I did no further EQ'ing during the test. However, I think with a little time spent, the DSR's could sound even closer to the SRX's.
I had previously stuck my neck out when I first purchased the DSR's and said they reminded me of the SRX's, but I was a little nervous that I'd be disappointed with the test and find my ears had deceived me. However, we were both pleasantly surprised at the results because for the money, the DSR's are quite a force to be reckoned with and it was easy to hear why we thought what we did about the DSR's compared to the SRX's.

It was a fun project - I wish I had had more time to do more.  I also wish I could give a better explanation of what I heard to you guys but it is so difficult sometimes to describe why one speaker sounds better than another. Chris and I agreed on just about everything so at least we had 2 sets of ears doing this.

Bottom line is this - if I sold my SRX system, I would not be quite as upset as I would have been before I got the DSR's.  However, my SRX speakers are good - very good. I have them tuned well and the system is hard to beat in this price range without making a huge investment which I am not prepared to do.
I know I have had the SRX's up for sale in the past but I think unless I need money to pay the mortgage, I'll keep them and use them more - I have a couple of outdoor shows coming up where I'd need them anyway.

The fact that I have used all 4 subs together and they play really nicely on the same stage helps a lot because I can scale to a certain extent when I need to. The SRX715's have never gotten close to running out of gas for the shows I have run- so no worries there.

I hope my terminology its too vague or amateurish and can be of help to anyone who has wondered how the DSR's match up to the SRX's…….












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John Penkala

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2015, 04:33:37 PM »

OK…comparison done.

We set up a PRX718xlf  with a DSR112 ……….and right next to it, a SRX718 and a SRX715 using left and right sends to A/B each one.
SRX system crossed through DBX PA+, using XTI 6002 into srx718, XTI6002 into SRX715, XLS2000 into SRX highs (heavily limited - amp too big). The DRPA crosses the system at 90hz I believe which is the JBL tuning for this system as pre-set in the DRPA. The DSR's were set flat with no contour.
I was also careful to get the overall volumes very close and the sub/top balance the same each side.
So- yes, we were comparing a cab designed and processed by the engineers at the factory to my processing BUT I was using as I said, the JBL recommended tuning in the JBL cabs. I also thought it was fairer to use the 3 way set up with the SRX system as the DSR's are using an active crossover.
Bear in mind driver size difference DSR - 12", SRX-15". I figured with so many another variables I didn't worry too much about this difference.

After a quick soundcheck, I reduced down a small amount of the mid freq on the DSR which got it sounding much more like the SRX.

I played my iPod in mono and by the time I had been through a number of tunes, I didn't even bother with instruments as I think I got a pretty good all round idea of what was going on.

I did not have access to the ' The Hunter' but I own some Nora Jones and used one of hers. I played some big band stuff, modern dance, some classic rock, raggae and some ballads.
This is what we found…

We first compared the PRX718xlf to the SRX718 without the tops and were quite shocked to find them very similar. So much so that it was difficult to tell the difference between the 2. I did a blind test with Chris and he found it hard to know which was which. I used a couple of rock songs and a couple of EDM tunes for this. The PRX had a little more of a boomy sound  whereas the SRX was more of a dry thud - but like I say - very close indeed.
I am quite impressed with those PRX subs ….

Here is a list of tunes we played through each stack one by one.

The first song we used was one that puts speakers through their paces quite well….Twinkle Toes by Lyle Lovett and his big band. The snare sounded nicer in the PRX/DSR combo but some of the band instruments were a bit 'honky' through that side. The SRX's tamed the honk and sounded better overall.

Faith- George Michael. The organ intro to the song sounded 'bigger' through the SRX's but more to the forefront and 'middly' through the PRX/DSR combo. Once song got going, the percussive sounds were more pronounced with a little more prescence through the PRX/DSR but vocals were cleaner through the SRX's.

1979 - Smashing Pumpkins - Main difference noted were the vocals. Again - more forward in the mix through the PRX/DSRT and actually a little nicer to our ears. The SRX's sounded somewhat lacking there but we preferred the music through them.

Food for Thought - UB40. The percussion in this one really shone through the DSR's, especially the snare sound. It lacked a little through the SRX's. However, the SRX's were more pleasing to the ears for vocals and overall quality.

Land Downunder (acoustic version) - Colin Hay. The PRX/DSR seemed to bring out the acoustic guitar really well in this one. Sounded good through both.

Gangnam Style. For dance music, the PRX/DSR side came to life a bit and the SRX seemed lifeless.

Moves Like Jagger - again this heavy dance beat music is enhanced through the PRX/DSR combo.

Hotel California - Eagles.  A great tune to sound check a system….. The PRX/DSR side was too middly on this one and sounded a lot better throughout the SRX side. Better separation of instruments and nicer sounding guitars.

Wish I Could - Norah Jones. We both noticed the vocal harmony lines to be more easily distinguished and more present through the PRX/DSR on this one.  However, the cello sounded too bassy through the PRX/DSR.

We continued on with some more tunes and found a trend occurring. The vocal 'push' in the DSR must have had something to do with the 12" speaker compared to the 15". The PRX/DSR sounded a little better overall with the dance music tunes but the SRX had a wonderful transparency throughout all the songs and favored the classic rock songs and ballads.
Although I pulled a little of the mids out of the DSR's I did no further EQ'ing during the test. However, I think with a little time spent, the DSR's could sound even closer to the SRX's.
I had previously stuck my neck out when I first purchased the DSR's and said they reminded me of the SRX's, but I was a little nervous that I'd be disappointed with the test and find my ears had deceived me. However, we were both pleasantly surprised at the results because for the money, the DSR's are quite a force to be reckoned with and it was easy to hear why we thought what we did about the DSR's compared to the SRX's.

It was a fun project - I wish I had had more time to do more.  I also wish I could give a better explanation of what I heard to you guys but it is so difficult sometimes to describe why one speaker sounds better than another. Chris and I agreed on just about everything so at least we had 2 sets of ears doing this.

Bottom line is this - if I sold my SRX system, I would not be quite as upset as I would have been before I got the DSR's.  However, my SRX speakers are good - very good. I have them tuned well and the system is hard to beat in this price range without making a huge investment which I am not prepared to do.
I know I have had the SRX's up for sale in the past but I think unless I need money to pay the mortgage, I'll keep them and use them more - I have a couple of outdoor shows coming up where I'd need them anyway.

The fact that I have used all 4 subs together and they play really nicely on the same stage helps a lot because I can scale to a certain extent when I need to. The SRX715's have never gotten close to running out of gas for the shows I have run- so no worries there.

I hope my terminology its too vague or amateurish and can be of help to anyone who has wondered how the DSR's match up to the SRX's…….



I'm curious as to what happens when you push each of them to their limits. What happens with the SPL and the tone of each? Generally speaking, folks in the lounge doing rock bands run right up against the red line a good portion of the time.

-JP
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2015, 05:06:29 PM »

Yeah that would be my question too. As a DJ the one thing that impresses me about my SRX-715s is that as I pour the power to them they never lose their composure, and stay butter smooth without a bit of harshness.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2015, 05:20:24 PM »

Very well written comparison.  Kind of like reading a high end audio review.  How known recordings sound and what stands out is really helpful.  A lot of it seems to be around eq though.  The JBLs had factory optimization from the DR PEQ and dynamics settings while the processing on the Yamahas was turned off.  The Yamaha processing does seem to add some HF tilt according to the published specs so it definitely needs some outside processing help to flatten out.

From what I have read so far, neither rig should have gas issues provided the JBLs are given good amplification.  From my experience with SRX712s they can manage quite a lot of power without strain.
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Scott Harris

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2015, 07:53:16 PM »

Dayum!  I'm thinking Debbie needs to be hired by a review site!  Very informative and well written!
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2015, 07:59:19 PM »

Very well written comparison.  Kind of like reading a high end audio review.  How known recordings sound and what stands out is really helpful.  A lot of it seems to be around eq though.  The JBLs had factory optimization from the DR PEQ and dynamics settings while the processing on the Yamahas was turned off.  The Yamaha processing does seem to add some HF tilt according to the published specs so it definitely needs some outside processing help to flatten out.

From what I have read so far, neither rig should have gas issues provided the JBLs are given good amplification.  From my experience with SRX712s they can manage quite a lot of power without strain.

Stephen….I wrote that contour was off - in fact I messed up. First of all I did have the contour setting off- but realized soon into the test that it would be fairer with it on so as to help flatten out. Sorry….so contour for the songs I listed was in fact ON. There was still that mid bump there though although not as bad.

Regarding running out of gas……

There was no way I was going to be able to push either set up in my garage BUT I am relying on the fact that when I push either system in clubs they both remain sounding great. Yes -the SRX's are known to get better the more they are pushed and stay that way but I have found the DSR's can be pushed quite hard too with no degradation of sound so I didn't even consider this for that reason. My old PRX's would degrade at high volume.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2015, 09:48:29 PM »

Thanks Debbie.  From what I can see of the published FR graphs, the contour switch aggravates the high end tilt by 3dB or so at 5k.  But it's pretty smooth going up there and consistent from there on out.  So it could be eq'd out.  I actually like the sound of the DXR better.  I've never liked "forward" speakers.  The SRX712 is about the only JBL that I can take.  I've found that pumping up a 3-4k presence hump to make things "cut" is not only fatiguing, but keeping the fundamentals of an instrument's sound in balance actually makes it carry better.  As the lower frequencies disperse and air loss knocks off the very top, you are left with shrill overtones that make it harder to hear the actual music going on.

e.g. very scooped guitar amps like a Fender Super Reverb or most Marshall oriented things.  They can sound very majestic right in front of them.  And there is an impression that the highs will "cut" through.  But what happens 40+ feet out in front of them is that the thump has dissipated, and since the fundamentals were scooped out all that remains is this "screeeee" sound that has very little note value left and doesn't correlate to the music.  A flatter tweed/Dumble type of sound may not sound as impressive to the guitarist standing right in front of it, but the actual notes will carry through the room.

I look at SR in much the same way.  I want people to hear the musical values of the notes and the arrangement that is being played first, and then work on the color and overtones as needed to give it life.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2015, 10:59:04 PM »

Thanks so much Debbie for doing this.  I am sure there are lots of people that were wondering about the relative quality of sound between the DSR's and the PRX boxes.

I think the list of songs you used are a very good cross section of music for the testing.

I was surprised that you found the DSR's actually provided better impact than the SRX715's, but not surprised that the vocals were smoother through the SRX's (that was how my ears heard it too).

Some of the details of the music seem to be brought out better by the DSR's to my ear, but then again, that may also be why I felt the SRX's were somewhat smoother.

As for the DSR's running out of gas ..... not until well after a XLF or SRX718 does.  When they do go into limiting, there is no degradation of the signal at all to my ear.  If anything, they appear to get a little smoother once they go into limiting.

FWIW, I also thought there wasn't a hill of beans difference between the SRX718 and PRX XLF's (I only tested the 618S-XLF, not the 7XX.  I have heard several places where they don't have the SRX718's set up as well as they should where I prefer the XLF's.

I strongly suspect that the SRX715 will go beyond what a DSR112 can do.  I don't play many gigs where  DSR112's can't handle things just fine though.

Thank you so much for doing this Debbie!
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2015, 12:34:31 AM »

Thanks Debbie.  From what I can see of the published FR graphs, the contour switch aggravates the high end tilt by 3dB or so at 5k.  But it's pretty smooth going up there and consistent from there on out.  So it could be eq'd out.  I actually like the sound of the DXR better.  I've never liked "forward" speakers.  The SRX712 is about the only JBL that I can take.  I've found that pumping up a 3-4k presence hump to make things "cut" is not only fatiguing, but keeping the fundamentals of an instrument's sound in balance actually makes it carry better.  As the lower frequencies disperse and air loss knocks off the very top, you are left with shrill overtones that make it harder to hear the actual music going on.

e.g. very scooped guitar amps like a Fender Super Reverb or most Marshall oriented things.  They can sound very majestic right in front of them.  And there is an impression that the highs will "cut" through.  But what happens 40+ feet out in front of them is that the thump has dissipated, and since the fundamentals were scooped out all that remains is this "screeeee" sound that has very little note value left and doesn't correlate to the music.  A flatter tweed/Dumble type of sound may not sound as impressive to the guitarist standing right in front of it, but the actual notes will carry through the room.

I look at SR in much the same way.  I want people to hear the musical values of the notes and the arrangement that is being played first, and then work on the color and overtones as needed to give it life.


What I really like about the DSR's is that for live music, they push the vocals to the front where my PRX612's would not and it makes the vocal and guitar separation much easier. It would seem this comes at a price - a lack of warmth perhaps. However, the PRX612's had the typical JBL upper mid harshness but I never found vocals to have the same clarity as the DSR's. 
I actually have a pair of the DXR15's and they do sound quite nice. I should put them up against the DSR's….maybe my next test????
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2015, 12:44:39 AM »

Thanks so much Debbie for doing this.  I am sure there are lots of people that were wondering about the relative quality of sound between the DSR's and the PRX boxes.

I think the list of songs you used are a very good cross section of music for the testing.

I was surprised that you found the DSR's actually provided better impact than the SRX715's, but not surprised that the vocals were smoother through the SRX's (that was how my ears heard it too).

Some of the details of the music seem to be brought out better by the DSR's to my ear, but then again, that may also be why I felt the SRX's were somewhat smoother.

As for the DSR's running out of gas ..... not until well after a XLF or SRX718 does.  When they do go into limiting, there is no degradation of the signal at all to my ear.  If anything, they appear to get a little smoother once they go into limiting.

FWIW, I also thought there wasn't a hill of beans difference between the SRX718 and PRX XLF's (I only tested the 618S-XLF, not the 7XX.  I have heard several places where they don't have the SRX718's set up as well as they should where I prefer the XLF's.

I strongly suspect that the SRX715 will go beyond what a DSR112 can do.  I don't play many gigs where  DSR112's can't handle things just fine though.

Thank you so much for doing this Debbie!

You are so welcome Scott…..

I agree there was a 'smoothness' to the SRX that the DSR did not have. This tended to give the impression of lacking luster somehow compared to the DSR. The SRX had a very 'open' sound - a 'wide' sound to it but the DSR was more 'in your face'. This is why the dance music appeared to sound better through the DSR as the style of music has more impact.
I could have spent all day just going back and forth but I had to break things down for a rehearsal.

Now I'd like to hear from anyone who can do a side by side of the SRX700 series to the SRX800 series….that would be interesting...
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: My new Yamaha DSR112s.
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2015, 12:44:39 AM »


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