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[Hanno Meingast]

Yup. Seems to function though

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Yup. Seems to function though

Same thing happening on every channel?

Tried swapping cables?

[Robert Lunceford]

I was really hoping for a reply from an actual user!!

I did have a model 101 which was similar to the 107. I currently have the BCL model.
I hooked up both models as specified by the manufacturer, between the mixer and power amp.
You should have a basic understanding of how these units work. They eliminate the low frequencies below the frequency you select and create harmonics to fool the ear into thinking you still hear those lower frequencies.
You should send the processed signal into a full range speaker system as a subwoofer may not be capable of producing the upper harmonics.

From the 107 manual:
"The technology behind MaxxBass goes back hundreds of years, when makers of pipe organs heard low deep tones coming from short pipes. They soon discovered that the short pipes were producing the harmonics of much lower tones. People heard the lower tones...even though they weren’t actually there. That’s the effect of the missing fundamental.
Today, MaxxBass uses this same missing fundamental to improve your sound. Here’s how it works: First, MaxxBass determines the frequency crossover point. Then, it separates the low bass frequencies which can’t be reproduced by the speaker. The low frequencies are analyzed to create a complex set of harmonics which can be reproduced by the speaker. These harmonics are added back to the rest of the audio, replacing the original low frequency energy."

What are you trying to accomplish by assigning it to a group or a single channel?
It is usually best to use it as it was designed, unless you are trying to create a special effect.

[Luke Geis]

I don't believe it will work in a subs on aux without special setup. It produces the effect of controlled bass extension by using sympathetic harmonics. That is to say that it actually eliminates the sub content and replaces it with harmonics of that content, that when combined, give the psychoacoustic effects of extended and controlled bass that in the mastering process allows more headroom to squeeze more volume out of the mix.  In short, it is not actually increasing sub frequencies, it is actually reducing/eliminating them and replacing it with frequencies that go much higher than subwoofers crossover would be.

When I do mastering work, it is placed in my chain after EQ and before compression and limiting. I do that so I can easily A-B the effect vs the EQ used on the mix. It produces harmonics that extend about an octave above the desired frequency " extension ". So it is something that must be inserted before crossover/ signal delineation. It needs to be present in both the subs and mains, so you have to find a way to get the whole effect in both parts. This is hard to do in a setting utilizing aux fed subs.

I have not used either of those units in a live setting, but I would find it a more useful tool in a full range setup that does not have aux fed subs. The instructions above basically support that. In each scenario they show it placed after the mixer before the amplifier. Although in one scenario it does show that the effect only being used to send to the subs only. It also say that the effect depends on what frequencies you want to effect. It can be anywhere between 50-170hz. The upper end of it is well beyond most sub crossover points. Although the effect works nice in the studio, for live systems that incorporate aux fed subs, I don't see it as viable. The idea is to save energy while increasing the perceived bass levels.

If it were me and I was running aux fed subs I would buss only the signal going from the sub mix into it and then return it back into a money channel that would then be what actually feeds the aux subs. I would then also send the desired amount of the effect into the main mix. If I am only worried about helping the low end ( which is inherently a mono signal ) I could then control the sound of the low end that is seen in both the mains and the subs while still utilizing the power of the effect. I could see this as being an issue for the mains as it is possible for coupling, so you will have to cut the highs and mids with a low pass filter to control what is heard in the main mix.

[Hanno Meingast]

I had a look again at the 107 manual, and looking at the circuit diagram, it appears that  there is no high pass filter that affects the audio passing through the unit. There is a side chain circuit, and the highpass in the side chain determines the cutoff point above which harmonics are created. The harmonics are then fed to both channels
I'm assuming I still need to highpass the sub or system. John Chiara mentioned in a previous thread that it works better with front loaded subs, rather than tapped horns; I have other smaller subs.

Am still wondering about the weird  pfl behavior.

[Tim McCulloch]

I had a look again at the 107 manual, and looking at the circuit diagram, it appears that  there is no high pass filter that affects the audio passing through the unit. There is a side chain circuit, and the highpass in the side chain determines the cutoff point above which harmonics are created. The harmonics are then fed to both channels
I'm assuming I still need to highpass the sub or system. John Chiara mentioned in a previous thread that it works better with front loaded subs, rather than tapped horns; I have other smaller subs.

Am still wondering about the weird  pfl behavior.

I suspect either D.C. or noise >20kHz.

[Luke Geis]

To the PFL behavior?? As for folded horn vs direct radiating, I don't think it matters as long as things are well aligned. Folded horn subs usually have several milliseconds before the sound exits the throat so you would need to align the mains to it. As far as things go, a folded horn is still crossed over, so I don't think it will depreciate the effect assuming the system as a whole was well set up.

beyond that, and this is only my opinion, I don't see any value in the effect when attempting to run it between the mixer and the speakers. The unit does work and it does do the trick for gaining headroom while still having perceived levels of bass, but in a well designed system, headroom isn't as much of an issue in the subs when they are aux fed. For pre recorded media it makes total sense when your trying to get the dynamic range to within -5db rms. I don't feel that I am competing against pre recorded media when doing a performance. I can make a show sound really good and well locked in ( at least I think so...... my clients seem to agree too ) even if the crest factor is still high relative to recorded media. Using the effect as an insert, to me is a more viable option.

Furthermore, I also consider the medium in which I am hired to essentially amplify. If I am predominately playing track music, I have to consider that the media has already had lots of processing done to it. I have a saying that goes like this: " Too much of a good thing, is still too much "....... If the media has that processing done to it and I do it again with my PA, is it too much? I feel that our job as " sound engineers " is to provide a linear and essentially uncolored PA that is capable of delivering sound that is devoid of artifacts and processing that alters the perception of the source material.

Taken a step further, If the intention is to get live music to sound as close as possible to the studio counterparts, then we must process the audio in a manor that only effects the source media and not the PA which is being used to amplify it. I am all for getting live music to sound like a CD with as much compression and audio foolery as is reasonable, but I am not into the idea of making the PA the purveyor of that job. The PA is medium in which we display our art, or the canvas in which we paint, it should not be so much the colors we chose or the picture we attempt to display. If the PA was a mirror, would it be a flat one, or a curved one? Each one reflects an image, but which one is true to what it's presented?

[Doug Fowler]

Hi, I recently bought a waves maxxbass unit on the'bay'.  Have a couple of questions about the best way(s) to hook it up. I have noticed that an input on one channel will have full range output on that channel, and mostly low frequency output on the other channe, ie. only one input.
So in a live situation I'd like to feed a sub, or be able to use it as an insert on one channel or group. An oddity I have come across is with the unit inserted on my Mixwiz 2, there will be about 0db showing on the pfl regardless of input level, or with no input.

Thanks. Hanno

From experience, use it as a channel insert. Others are correct about needing full range output to synthesize the harmonics in order to trick the ear.   

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