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Author Topic: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line  (Read 83680 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #540 on: April 22, 2018, 03:01:54 pm »


Further feeding my suspicion about them and their UL aspirations, they have boldly marked the tester with CE  ::) ::) From an american company, selling a product only to americans, that only plugs into american outlets.


And even if  it were from a European country, my understanding is the CE mark is essentially a self policing standard that requires no testing and is specifically not intended to imply meeting any safety standards.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #541 on: April 22, 2018, 03:25:43 pm »

And even if  it were from a European country, my understanding is the CE mark is essentially a self policing standard that requires no testing and is specifically not intended to imply meeting any safety standards.
CE is self reporting, not self policing, but it has little teeth against a distant manufacturer.

Quote from: WWW
CE marking is a certification mark that indicates conformity with health, safety, and environmental protection standards for products sold within the European Economic Area (EEA). The CE marking is also found on products sold outside the EEA that are manufactured in, or designed to be sold in, the EEA.

A US mfr selling products into EU falsely claiming to meet EU standards, puts the EU distributor and/or dealers at risk of legal consequences. 

The EU safety standards are now a harmonized version of the old safety standards that were a huge PIA meeting the requirements and getting approval from every different country. Back in the day they kind of standardized on Germany and Norway testing (IIRC?) but still a huge PIA, now is betta.

But of course that US made tester for domestic outlets with a CE mark is yet another IQ test for ignorant consumers.  ::)

That said I have seem non-UL SKUs sold by web merchants that should know better but that's another story for another day.
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To bring this slightly back on topic if that neon probe screwdriver is UL listed as they claim, that suggests to me that it would possible to get UL to bless a cheap and dirty 4 lamp outlet tester, that adds one more lamp to the cheaper than dirt 3 lamp testers that don't work (to detect RPBG). A fourth neon bulb inside with a series resistor between the safety ground and an external tough probe would light if the safety ground was energized and human touched the probe. Of course this involves a much lower than 100M insulation resistance (like that screwdriver probe) but only low single digit mA so no risk to human safety.

This tells me that for less than $1 BOM hit, the 3 lamp testers could become a 4 lamp tester that actually works.

Now how do I get in touch with that chinese manufacturer who makes all these?  :o

JR 
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Lyle Williams

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #542 on: April 22, 2018, 03:31:11 pm »

... and quietly, with nobody really noticing, the unseen hand of the regulator made the cheap chinese tester superior to the American one.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #543 on: April 22, 2018, 03:41:41 pm »

... and quietly, with nobody really noticing, the unseen hand of the regulator made the cheap chinese tester superior to the American one.

The 3 lamp tester may have originally been US designed it is now owned by chinese manufacturing.

I wish UL was more proactive about human safety, but they see their job as more of a service sold to manufacturers, thus their approval of the 3 lamp testers (after adding some fine print caveats) that IMO are dangerous.

Maybe after a cheap 4 lamp tester comes into existence they might man up and outlaw the 3 lamp testers. (nah)  ::)

JR
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Chris Hindle

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #544 on: April 23, 2018, 09:11:02 am »


Now how do I get in touch with that chinese manufacturer who makes all these?  :o

JR
Um, you already know how JR.
Build one and start selling it for 20 bucks, they will engineer(photocopy) one, and build them for 2 bucks. Delivered.  :(
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #545 on: April 23, 2018, 03:34:30 pm »


I wish UL was more proactive about human safety, but they see their job as more of a service sold to manufacturers, thus their approval of the 3 lamp testers (after adding some fine print caveats) that IMO are dangerous.

JR

Aren't they making sure the TESTER itself is safe?  Not whether it's test is useful in checking for safe outlets?
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #546 on: April 23, 2018, 06:04:17 pm »

Aren't they making sure the TESTER itself is safe?  Not whether it's test is useful in checking for safe outlets?
Perhaps but a consumer that sees UL approval on an outlet tester probably ASSumes the tester would catch unsafe wiring.  I would.

JR
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Chris Hindle

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #547 on: April 23, 2018, 06:37:04 pm »

Perhaps but a consumer that sees UL approval on an outlet tester probably ASSumes the tester would catch unsafe wiring.  I would.

JR
I dunno JR.
I see UL, I presume the "thing" is safe to plug in. NOT that it does the job I imagine it is supposed to do....
Chris.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #548 on: April 27, 2018, 11:34:15 am »

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here is a picture of my cheap lamp tester with a neon lamp hanging off the ground lead.

When plugged into an intentional RPBG I see the neon lamp illuminate dimly (by my finger) when I touch it... The 100k series resistor probably limits the current to well less than 1mA, so I could go several steps brighter.

I could use this dim light from very low current to trigger the gate of an optical device to light a much brighter lamp, but that would defeat my <$1 BOM cost increase.

JR

PS Don't try this at home,  :o  just carry a cheap neon lamp probe.
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