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Author Topic: Delaying Mains to backline  (Read 9758 times)

John Chiara

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2014, 11:21:16 AM »

I find it can work well on smaller stages, and seems to help on noisier stages to pull the 'room' sound together. Depends on the room a lot. Works better in narrow rooms where most of the sound is going forward and not out to side fills. Try it.
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Mark Oakley

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2014, 01:21:34 PM »

I've had good results delaying mains on deeper stages. If the drums are only 4-6 back from the front-line of the PA, then there's not much difference. If the drums are 16-20 ft. back from the PA, then delaying the Mains brings the drums (and backline) into "focus".

Try this the next time you're on a deep stage: measure the distance from the kick drum to the front of the PA and delay the Mains that distance. When the band is playing, try bypassing the delay, and see if you notice a difference.

-Mark
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Craig Montgomery

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2014, 01:53:08 PM »

Whatever floats your boats, but I've yet to see "Kick Drum" on the marquee at my place.  Unless the room is full of sound engineers, the audience is usually there to see and hear Elvis, and he (or she) isn't 20 feet behind the PA.  :D
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Mark Oakley

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2014, 04:10:58 PM »

Whatever floats your boats, but I've yet to see "Kick Drum" on the marquee at my place.  Unless the room is full of sound engineers, the audience is usually there to see and hear Elvis, and he (or she) isn't 20 feet behind the PA.  :D

It's not about that. It's about trying to improve coherence and intelligibility between the backline (and its volume) and main PA, especially on larger stages.

-Mark
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Chip Sciacca

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 05:42:11 PM »

the way I've handled it is to wait until the entire band is playing during sound check then lower the master volume of the lake while in the center of the audience until i can hear two distinct sources( band and PA)  then adjust the delay in the lake to correct it. Return the volume to normal and you should be there.
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Peter Morris

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 06:53:15 PM »

It's not about that. It's about trying to improve coherence and intelligibility between the backline (and its volume) and main PA, especially on larger stages.

-Mark

Exactly!
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John L Nobile

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 10:39:22 PM »

After trying it with a rough delay time, I do like it. The guitar doesn't sound way back in the mix anymore and I can hear it much better without having to crank it.
I will try Marks suggestion of turning down the PA and listening for the proper delay time. I'm thinking that it might be time to invest in a Smaart app.
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jason misterka

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 06:34:02 AM »

It's not about that. It's about trying to improve coherence and intelligibility between the backline (and its volume) and main PA, especially on larger stages.

-Mark

True of course, but also consider that most larger stages have front fills. And if you delay the mains  significantly, you may have to delay the front fills much more significantly to align them.  Especially with flown mains.

This can put the front fills quite far behind the stage wash, sidefills, and wedges. I've even seen it make them so far back the singers lips seem to look out of sync with the audio at the front row.

Just something to consider.  I do it both ways depending on the situation.  Often I end up in the middle and just add a few feet of delay to the mains in addition to delay causes by the console, digital processors, etc.  You sometimes need that to align to subs anyway.

My 2c...
Jason
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Luke Geis

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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 06:56:19 PM »

I have done it and while it works well sometimes, it does not all the time. I found that the monitors can have an impact on how well it works. If you delay the FOH the backline sounds locked in, but I have had instances where the vocals then started to loose apparentness. The monitors are the only thing I think that could pull the vocals out in the mix from time shift. Not being able at the times I had that occur to flip the monitors phase, was a limiting factor in the scenario. Perhaps now not so much?

In general, yes it works well and gives a nice depth to the sound, but it can work the other way sometimes.
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Re: Delaying Mains to backline
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 06:56:19 PM »


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