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Author Topic: types of audio cables?  (Read 11028 times)

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 07:51:15 AM »

Most of you know I do come from a telephony background.

You made no mention of TT cables.....
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2014, 07:12:27 PM »

Hence why I call them TR cables.  There is no sleeve on a two conductor.

Most of you know I do come from a telephony background.

Nobody has ever corrected me, until now.

Well, you really are correct, from a historic perspective. But just like the words blizzard and gay, popular misuse changes the prevailing definition. So I used the terminology that most audio people use and that you will find in most audio system documentation.

P.s. - I don't like it when people misuse words; imprecise terminology breeds confusion.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 07:14:49 PM by Jonathan Johnson »
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2014, 07:46:57 PM »

Hence why I call them TR cables.  There is no sleeve on a two conductor.

Most of you know I do come from a telephony background.

Nobody has ever corrected me, until now.


If we differentiate between coaxial, unbalanced cable and unshielded parallel or twisted pair cable, we find that the unshielded cable is actually a balanced signal. Since the "sleeve" technically refers to the contact connected to the grounded shield, and is a 0V reference, telephony standards specify that the signal + is called 'tip' and the signal - referred to as 'ring', regardless of which contact of the connector is used. So Scott, I tip my hat to you as you reminded me of the correct application of the terminology.

In an unbalanced coaxial cable, as previously mentioned,  the shield is typically a 0V grounded reference. Since EMF/RF interference will be induced in the shield to a greater degree than the center conductor, the shield is grounded to drain off the RF energy and prevent signal contamination. The signal - of the source is bonded to the shield. Calling it (-) is really  only a convention, as the direction of electron flow depends on your perspective.

Unshielded twisted pair rejects interference by a principle known as 'common mode rejection.' What this means is that the interference is induced in both conductors equally. So the input device sees the same signal (+ and +) on each conductor and is able to reject it since the receiver takes the difference between the two conductors, which is the desired signal.

Untwisted, unshielded parralel conductors are more prone to interference because the interference is not equal on both. This is because one conductor tends to be closer to the interference source than the other, so it is not equal at the receiver. Speaker cables can "get away with it" because the signal level is usually far above the level of the interference, but the interference is still there even if inaudible. Plus, the low impedance of the speaker tends to short out the high impedance of the interference source, so you probably won't hear it when everything else is silent.

I think I might have got on a rabbit trail. What was the question?
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2014, 07:06:04 AM »

I didn't mean to throw the post off.  I should pay more attention as I probably never paid much attention to the documentation vs what I verbalize.  The concept is more important. 

From the OP perspective most be without professional audio training think of three conductor as stereo.  Balanced signals were never part of their lives so it is an abstract concept.

I am sure most techs have never seen old TV 300 ohm balanced flatline and the baluns they sold to convert to coax.  I also fine it very hard to teach common mode rejection ratio and why balanced lines have excellent noise immunity properties.

Frankly without all the concepts it seems people learn silly rules as to what can be hooked up to what.  It's a hard way to learn things.  For us older folks we have to keep beating the why drum. 

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2014, 12:51:36 PM »


Frankly without all the concepts it seems people learn silly rules as to what can be hooked up to what.   

If the plug doesn't fit, you must acquit  ;)
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2014, 02:24:02 PM »

Frankly without all the concepts it seems people learn silly rules as to what can be hooked up to what.  It's a hard way to learn things.  For us older folks we have to keep beating the why drum.

You can't break the rules until you understand the reason for the rules. Once you understand the reason, you can figure out how you can do things differently without affecting the product or safety.
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James A. Griffin

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 10:41:02 AM »

When used on a speaker cable between an amplifier and a loudspeaker, only unbalanced TS connectors are used. The tip is the signal (+) and the ring is the signal (-).

This is either a typo or a contradiction.    TS connectors do not have a ring.

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James A. Griffin

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2014, 10:42:08 AM »

Hence why I call them TR cables.  There is no sleeve on a two conductor.

Most of you know I do come from a telephony background.

Nobody has ever corrected me, until now.


Wrong, there is no RING on a two conductor.    The RING is the middle connector, as stated before.   
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Cosmo

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 12:56:05 PM »



(snip)
The Tip is, naturally, the tip of the connector. It is the positive (+) conductor...


IIRC some older QSC amplifiers used tip=negative.

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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2014, 01:31:31 AM »

IIRC some older QSC amplifiers used tip=negative.

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.  :-\ ::)
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: types of audio cables?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2014, 01:31:31 AM »


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