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Author Topic: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band  (Read 8362 times)

Mike Barker

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Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« on: October 24, 2014, 11:32:08 AM »

Professional Method to Perform Orderly Monitor Sound Checks with Band

The questions (down below) regard a proper step-by-step method for performing monitor mix and volume checks with a rock-style band.

Assume:  Room the size of a small gymnasium and basketball court.  The room is small enough that drums do not necessarily have to be mic'd.  But nevertheless, they are.

Assume:  One board FOH with one sound engineer and an assistant.  Mains and monitors controlled from this board.

Assume:  Wedges.  Assume for the sake of this post that every musician somehow has a wedge.  If your reply would be different for earbuds and fewer wedges, indicate how.  (Stage volume issues, e.g.)

Assume for the sake of this dicussion we have the following musicians and instruments and amps and mics: 

(1) Drums with mic'd kick and two overheads.

(2) Electric Bass guitar run directly to the board.

(3) Acoustic Bass pickuped to stage bass amp on stage, mic'd to the board.

(4) Electric guitar to amp on stage, mic'd to the board.

(5) Acoustic guitar or fiddle or banjo, no pickup, the instrument itself mic'd.

(6) A relatively soft wind instrument, like a flute or recorder, mic'd.

(7) A loud horn, like a sax or trumpet, mic'd.

(8) A backup vocalist (or two or three), individually mic'd.

(9) A lead vocalist.

(10) A speaker.  Not part of the band.

(11) The engineer at the board has a mic.

(12) The engineer's assistant has a mic.

Also:  I'm not interested in this post about the controls, knobs, sliders on the board, or any of the electronics, gain, compression, leveling, frequency manipulation, room acoustics, and technical matters of gear and electronics.  I'm interested instead in proper order, procedure, and step-by-step actions with people and wedges.

Assume:  You are the sound engineer and you want things run professionally, properly, quickly, and thoroughly.  All the musicians and singers want to be as professional as possible.


Questions:

(1) Done properly, does the engineering team allow musicians and singers to plug their own instruments and boxes and microphones into the snake or board?

(2) Should line checks be performed as each instrument/musician "plugs-in" to the board?

(3) Should monitor checks occur before or after the house mix and house volume level is roughly set?  Finally set?

(4) Should house sound be fully up, fully off, or at some other volume level during individual wedge checks?

(5) Which musician / wedge comes first?  Second?  Third?  Last?  Why?  Does it matter?

(6) Do you add playing musicians one-at-a-time, as you check mixes?  For example, the drummer plays first while all others are quiet.  Then the bass and drummer play.  Then the flute and bass and drummer, etc.

(7) Is the band required to be playing a sound-check song together, at performance intensity, with the full set of musicians, for monitor checks to be performed properly?

(8) After an initial pass through the musicians / wedges for monitor mixes and levels, do you not have to make a second pass, as during the first pass, not every musician was playing?

(9) If you are not controlling the board with your hand-held iPad or other hand-held device, what is the best way to communicate from the musician on stage to the engineer across the large room on the board.

(10) Can a PROPER monitor check be performed if one of the band musicians never plays a note during the entire sound check?  Can you perform a proper monitor mix check for the lead guitarist if the singer's acoustic guitar is never played during the sound check?
The answer is, obviously, "no."  Correct?

(11) Can a PROPER monitor check be performed if one of the musicians noodles at soft intensity during the entire sound check?
The answer is, obviously, "no."  Correct?

(12) Can a PROPER monitor check be performed if the band does not exploit a sound-check tune, and play it at full performance intensity?
The answer is, less obviously, "no."  Correct?

(13) In practice, does the drummer need to hear the flute player or the backup vocalist?  Who does the drummer need to hear clearly?

(14) What special considerations should be noted for drums, bass, lead singer, backup singers, guitars, etc?


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Mike Barker
King George, Virginia

Robert Piascik

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 11:39:22 AM »



After the last post, I got nuthin'....
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John Sulek

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 12:15:02 PM »

Professional Method to Perform Orderly Monitor Sound Checks with Band


Assume:  Wedges.  Assume for the sake of this post that every musician somehow has a wedge.  If your reply would be different for earbuds and fewer wedges, indicate how.  (Stage volume issues, e.g.)

With earbuds you better have some decent sounding rough mixes dialed up BEFORE people start putting their buds in...makes folks relax right away when they aren't confronted with the cone of silence. This comfort factor helps set up the repoire you need to get everyone happy. You can get most of the levels you need by letting people noodle as they set up and dialing it in.
This is how it is done under real world combat audio conditions.

(3) Should monitor checks occur before or after the house mix and house volume level is roughly set?  Finally set?

Both ends of the snake need to be working towards the final mix at the same time to be time efficient. You'll need to change a few things as the house gets dialed in...that's why the controls on the console are made to be moved.
With one console...get some rough monitor levels so folks can start vamping/nooding/running a song....dial up the house quick as you can...revisit the monitors...carry on.
Doing both at the same time gets you closer to what it is going to be at showtime.

(4) Should house sound be fully up, fully off, or at some other volume level during individual wedge checks?

Are you planning on muting the pa during the show? If not, then it should be on at soundcheck. Then people can hear how much monitor they need or don't need based on the house sound coming back at them.

(5) Which musician / wedge comes first?  Second?  Third?  Last?  Why?  Does it matter?

The one signing the cheque is first. Tradition is drums and bass first to establish the rhytmn section..then add vocals and instruments.


I'll bite..although I think a checklist for a proper soundcheck is a moot point. Answers inserted above.
You need to establish trust and respect for your abilities with the musicians by making things easy and pleasant for them. Then you get a good soundcheck and proper communication.
You can be quick, thorough and professional without being bombastic about it.

One trick we used all the time for opening bands was to just tell the drummer to play a beat with some fills. In a minute or two you have a drum mix with realistic playing levels and he feels better because it wasn't...hit the kick 6 times...ok now the snare.... (of course you flash through the channels before the band arrives to make sure they work).
Super speedy and nobody gets bored standing around. The speed you can demostrate shows the band that you are skilled at this and once again establishes a professional dialogue.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 03:03:18 PM »

If you had enough real-world experience in live audio you wouldn't be asking these questions.  My advice is to keep quiet, go with the flow and know enough about YOUR job at FOH/monitors to pre-set things so that you can simply dial things in AS REQUESTED by the musicians.  They'll let you know what they need.  Your job is to be ready to give it to them.

There is no behavioral template you can lay down and have it work 100% of the time.  There ARE tasks you can accomplish BEFORE the musicians show up.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 03:20:21 PM »

I typically soundcheck a six piece band for both foh and monitors from nil in less time then it would take most to read the original post.

Know your mics, know your stage, know your wedges. Give the musicians what they need. It is not really that complicated.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 04:33:39 PM »

Professional Method ...

(13) In practice, does the drummer need to hear the flute player or the backup vocalist?  Who does the drummer need to hear clearly?



Shocked this thread hasn't been moved to the basement. Especially given posting in this board is above my knowledge base or level of expertise let alone yours. But I can't resist this one:

Professional Method?

Here you go:

Drummer needs to hear whatever the drummer wants to hear to be comfortable with his performance. What you or anyone else thinks he needs to hear is of no importance.

Same goes for everyone else's wedges.
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Mike Barker

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 05:11:36 PM »

Shocked...
Drummer needs to hear whatever the drummer wants to hear to be comfortable with his performance.

In a situation where stage volume is already loud, and affects the sound in the house, is it not reasonable to work with musicians to 1) minimize overall wedge volume levels, and 2) remove instruments from mixes for musicians not needing that instrument for his performance?




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Mike Barker
King George, Virginia

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 05:15:18 PM »

... is it not reasonable to work with musicians...

You really can't use "reasonable" and "musicians" in the same sentence.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 06:06:28 PM »

In a situation where stage volume is already loud, and affects the sound in the house, is it not reasonable to work with musicians to 1) minimize overall wedge volume levels, and 2) remove instruments from mixes for musicians not needing that instrument for his performance?

You will find with experience that musicians generally only ask for what they need. I know I never ask for anything in my monitor that I don't truly need because I don't want  my vocal being buried by instruments. If you're trying to remove things from the monitors I have ask why you put them there in the first place. Never put anything in a monitor that hasn't been asked for with the exception of vocals.

Volume? Yeah that's a different story altogether. Best way to combat that is to do house levels first and when they ask for more in their monitor be very judicious with how much you raise it at one time and always ask if something else is too loud first.

I'm a devout follower of Christ and I never like to do sound for church people. When it comes to amateurs who know it all they're at the top of my list. Good luck trying to get them to act "professional"
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Craig Montgomery

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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 06:36:24 PM »

Professional Method to Perform Orderly Monitor Sound Checks with Band

The questions (down below) regard a proper step-by-step method for performing monitor mix and volume checks with a rock-style band.

Assume:  Room the size of a small gymnasium and basketball court.  The room is small enough that drums do not necessarily have to be mic'd.  But nevertheless, they are.

Assume:  One board FOH with one sound engineer and an assistant.  Mains and monitors controlled from this board.

Assume:  Wedges.  Assume for the sake of this post that every musician somehow has a wedge.  If your reply would be different for earbuds and fewer wedges, indicate how.  (Stage volume issues, e.g.)

Assume for the sake of this dicussion we have the following musicians and instruments and amps and mics: 

(1) Drums with mic'd kick and two overheads.

(2) Electric Bass guitar run directly to the board.

(3) Acoustic Bass pickuped to stage bass amp on stage, mic'd to the board.

(4) Electric guitar to amp on stage, mic'd to the board.

(5) Acoustic guitar or fiddle or banjo, no pickup, the instrument itself mic'd.

(6) A relatively soft wind instrument, like a flute or recorder, mic'd.

(7) A loud horn, like a sax or trumpet, mic'd.

(8) A backup vocalist (or two or three), individually mic'd.

(9) A lead vocalist.

(10) A speaker.  Not part of the band.

(11) The engineer at the board has a mic.

(12) The engineer's assistant has a mic.

Also:  I'm not interested in this post about the controls, knobs, sliders on the board, or any of the electronics, gain, compression, leveling, frequency manipulation, room acoustics, and technical matters of gear and electronics.  I'm interested instead in proper order, procedure, and step-by-step actions with people and wedges.

Assume:  You are the sound engineer and you want things run professionally, properly, quickly, and thoroughly.  All the musicians and singers want to be as professional as possible.


Questions:

(1) Done properly, does the engineering team allow musicians and singers to plug their own instruments and boxes and microphones into the snake or board?

(2) Should line checks be performed as each instrument/musician "plugs-in" to the board?

(3) Should monitor checks occur before or after the house mix and house volume level is roughly set?  Finally set?

(4) Should house sound be fully up, fully off, or at some other volume level during individual wedge checks?

(5) Which musician / wedge comes first?  Second?  Third?  Last?  Why?  Does it matter?

(6) Do you add playing musicians one-at-a-time, as you check mixes?  For example, the drummer plays first while all others are quiet.  Then the bass and drummer play.  Then the flute and bass and drummer, etc.

(7) Is the band required to be playing a sound-check song together, at performance intensity, with the full set of musicians, for monitor checks to be performed properly?

(8) After an initial pass through the musicians / wedges for monitor mixes and levels, do you not have to make a second pass, as during the first pass, not every musician was playing?

(9) If you are not controlling the board with your hand-held iPad or other hand-held device, what is the best way to communicate from the musician on stage to the engineer across the large room on the board.

(10) Can a PROPER monitor check be performed if one of the band musicians never plays a note during the entire sound check?  Can you perform a proper monitor mix check for the lead guitarist if the singer's acoustic guitar is never played during the sound check?
The answer is, obviously, "no."  Correct?

(11) Can a PROPER monitor check be performed if one of the musicians noodles at soft intensity during the entire sound check?
The answer is, obviously, "no."  Correct?

(12) Can a PROPER monitor check be performed if the band does not exploit a sound-check tune, and play it at full performance intensity?
The answer is, less obviously, "no."  Correct?

(13) In practice, does the drummer need to hear the flute player or the backup vocalist?  Who does the drummer need to hear clearly?

(14) What special considerations should be noted for drums, bass, lead singer, backup singers, guitars, etc?

I'll help you.

Step 0:  Always remember to radiate kindness.  This is a service job and the people on stage need to feel comfortable to perform at their best.

Start with your console zeroed out, all gains down and sends off.  There is a lot of work you can do before the musicians arrive.  Set up and connect all the microphones and wedges.  Play some recorded music through the PA and wedges, do some rough tuning.  Connect one of the vocal mics to the console out front and talk into it.  This will let you know where to set the gain and give you another opportunity to do some rough tuning of the PA and wedges.

You don't specify whether you have some sort of wireless remote control of your console.  If you do, you can do this yourself, if not use an assistant:  go to each vocal position and dial up that vocal in that wedge.  Tune it for a natural, pleasing tone.  This way, when the singers arrive, they will already be able to hear themselves and will be at ease.

When the musicians arrive, you go to the stage and make any necessary connections, making sure their respective channels are muted.  Allow a reasonable amount of time for them to chat, set up their equipment and get it sounding right.  If you notice any egregious stage volume, now is a good time to mitigate that. Let them play together a little bit.  The sound on stage should be relatively well balanced, both between the amplified instruments and with the vocal levels you have already set.

Now, go out to front of house, and announce over your talkback mic that it's soundcheck time for the house.  Based on your description, no one should need any drums or amplified instruments in monitors, so I wouldn't offer them unless asked.  You may want to start with lead vocals and work back.

Go input by input.  Have each person sing into their mic, bring it up in the house.  Ask anyone who would like it in their wedge to raise their hand, dialing it up in each mix until they put their hand down.  (PRO TIP:  Don't run the house at full volume on an empty room.  This will make people on stage ask for a lot of monitor.  Pull the master down 5-10 db, and keep using it as a gas pedal to get the mix just over what's coming off the stage.  Once the room is full of people, just find the right level again.)  Don't spend too much time EQing each input in the house, your goal is to get the band playing as soon as possible.

To answer some of your questions:  The best way to communicate from the mix position to the stage is to plug a mic into the console and send it to the monitor mixes.  I like to use a mic with a built-in switch for this. 

Obviously, it's best to get a check on everything.  If that's not possible, do what you can.  Are you doing the same band repeatedly?
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Re: Professional, Orderly Sound Check of Monitors with Band
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 06:36:24 PM »


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