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[Steve M Smith]

The problem I have with automatic feedback detection and elimination devices is that in order for them to work, there has to be some feedback - and that is unacceptable.


Steve.

[John Roberts {JR}]

The problem I have with automatic feedback detection and elimination devices is that in order for them to work, there has to be some feedback - and that is unacceptable.


Steve.

My hypothetical delay/echo cancellation approach does not need feedback to actually happen, but arguably if feedback isn't happening there is nothing to correct. 

Of course taking too long to correct in the presence of feedback is very annoying. Identifying it and correcting while it is still building up from low level seem tolerable.

JR

[Don Boomer]

The problem I have with automatic feedback detection and elimination devices is that in order for them to work, there has to be some feedback - and that is unacceptable.

No feedback should be the goal, but is sometimes unavoidable.  So what happens in your system Steve if there are not automatic devices and your system develops feedback?

[Jay Barracato]

No feedback should be the goal, but is sometimes unavoidable.  So what happens in your system Steve if there are not automatic devices and your system develops feedback?

A good ear can hear the frequencies that are on edge before they take off and respond with appropriate eq.

Adding the Spectrograph in smaart on the cue bus is even more powerful especially when doing monitors from FOH.

I have a Sabine navigator as a portable DSP. The feedback function usually stays in bypass as it really doesn't like upright basses.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

A good ear can hear the frequencies that are on edge before they take off and respond with appropriate eq.

Adding the Spectrograph in smaart on the cue bus is even more powerful especially when doing monitors from FOH.

I have a Sabine navigator as a portable DSP. The feedback function usually stays in bypass as it really doesn't like upright basses.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

The bold above.

[Steve M Smith]

No feedback should be the goal, but is sometimes unavoidable.  So what happens in your system Steve if there are not automatic devices and your system develops feedback?

1.  It would have been set up to eliminate or reduce the resonances where feedback occurs.

2.  It's got me connected to it just in case!

I am personally embarrassed if there is ever any feedback whilst I am mixing.  Obviously there are some things not in our control like a singer cupping the back of a mic and/or getting it close to a monitor, but a lot of the time, feedback is inexcusable.  I have been to shows where the engineer is obviously not as bothered by it as me and it seems very unprofessional.


Steve.

[John Rutirasiri]

A good ear can hear the frequencies that are on edge before they take off and respond with appropriate eq.

Perhaps, but how long would it take someone to narrow it down to a particular Hertz?  The point is a feedback eliminator detects feedback more accurately and gets rid of it far faster than a human can possibly ever do given the same amount of time.

What is appropriate EQ...a band on a 1/3 octave that takes a bunch of freq not feeding back along for the ride?  A parametric with Q so high that it's essentially a notch?  Or notch filter, so that you're back to what a feedback eliminator does anyway?

I honestly don't know why people have such strong feelings against automatic feedback eliminators?  It is just not macho or pro to use it?  It's a tool in a sound tech's arsenal.  It doesn't have to be all or none.  Most of the users that know how to use them are not using them as band-aid for poor mic placement or improperly tuned/equalized system.  They are using them to get additional GBF for things like podium mics or lavs when a person has such soft spoken voice that you have to crank up the gain.  I won't use it unless I have to.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Obviously there are some things not in our control like a singer cupping the back of a mic and/or getting it close to a monitor, but a lot of the time, feedback is inexcusable.

Steve.

I would add instrumentalists bending over and presenting a reflective surface like a guitar top to the wedge, reflecting into the vocal or instrument mic.  The frustrating thing is when they keep on doing it after the first couple of shrieks.

[Steve M Smith]

In my case, I'm only talking about live music use.  I can see that they could be useful for spoken voice with a variety of speakers with varying vocal levels - and understanding of where to stand in relation to a microphone!

Over the last thirty years, my musician's ears have become very good at hearing a troublesome frequency and going straight to the correct band of a 31 band EQ.  I appreciate that it might take others longer to get there though.

My other worry is from reports I have read that these units can mistake a sustained note as feedback and reduce it.  However, I will admit that I have never used one so my fears might be ungrounded.

Although I can happily ring out a sytem by ear, I can see that an automatic detection and setup system could be useful to some.  I'm just old fashioned though and prefer to do it the old way!

But I agree,  It's another tool. And if it works for you, then there's nothing wrong with it.


Steve.

[Steve M Smith]

The frustrating thing is when they keep on doing it after the first couple of shrieks.

Or when you find a singer still holding the microphone incorrectly after you told him how to hold it twenty years ago!!


Steve.

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