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[Alex Rigodanzo]

Alex, no, that is not what is being said. What's being said is that there's a certain expectation for a venue in that area, and the PRX or STX will not fit the bill. As in... people would notice. And not in a good way. Would it sound OK to the average listener? Sure, but when the expectation is much higher-- then you have to spend the money to do it right, from the start.

No,they won't. Unless you've rounded up all the fringe audiophiles. The higher end stuff like Danley are a solution to the problem of getting good sound to thousands of people over large areas. We're talking basically a big living room here. The JBL stuff, properly set up, will sound every bit as good as a decent home theater. There is no subtle musical nuance to club dance music. Loud, clean and balanced response. You guys are starting to sound more off the wall than the concrete blocks on amplifiers and green sharpie on CD's crowd. Good sound isn't that hard.  You don't need Smaart to set up a 40x50' room.

[George Friedman-Jimenez]

I would say, IMHO, the differences would not justify the price tag for this size room.  Good QSC or JBL cabinets are VERY good speakers.  Many venues such as you're describing, have crap "DJ" brand speakers and they still manage to get the crowd dancing.  Scratching the d&b & Danley off your wish list will make it much easier to put together a quality system within your budget.
...

I didn't say a killer rig couldn't be installed for his budget. I'm saying Danley level gear is overkill for that space. You could fill it with JRX and 90% of the patrons would never know the difference. Step up to PRX or STX, and 99% will think it's the greatest sounding club they've been in. Spend the extra money on Danley, and NO ONE will notice. In that space, 4 18's and 4 12 + horn tops with 6k watts will be too loud for any conversation or drink orders. I play in a room that size all the time. A bar full of drunks does not require top flight sound. You can have excellent sound for a hell of a lot less money than Danley level gear.

(I'm only using the Danley name because it was mentioned by the OP. I believe ANY gear in that price range is overkill for a small bar)

I also disagree with this viewpoint. Aiming for the lowest common denominator, deaf drunks with money who aren't really listening and know nothing about good music and good sound just might doom you to having to cater to that group as your main clientele. Not fun!
The OP specifically said high quality sound was one of the priorities, and given the small size of the room, the budget range specified should be plenty adequate. Every week for over a year we have been playing at the Zinc Bar in NYC, just up 3rd St from the Blue Note and not much different in size, with a very small good quality FOH system and small backline amps, and the sound is fine for jazz, latin jazz, African and Afro-Caribbean. The Sugar Bar on 72nd St had outstanding sound from a small system, although they had a lot of acoustic treatment, bass traps, absorbing panels, diffusion, plus a great sound guy. Different types of recorded and live music pose different needs for your sound system and room.

I would suggest that since you have wide open design options with some potential challenges like very varied types of music and possibly low ceilings, you reserve part of your budget to engage a professional sound system consultant to make sure the system meets all the expected needs of your club.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

No,they won't. Unless you've rounded up all the fringe audiophiles. The higher end stuff like Danley are a solution to the problem of getting good sound to thousands of people over large areas. We're talking basically a big living room here. The JBL stuff, properly set up, will sound every bit as good as a decent home theater. There is no subtle musical nuance to club dance music. Loud, clean and balanced response. You guys are starting to sound more off the wall than the concrete blocks on amplifiers and green sharpie on CD's crowd. Good sound isn't that hard.  You don't need Smaart to set up a 40x50' room.

Stop digging the hole deeper.  You know nothing about the standards and competition the OP has to deal with. 

[Jonathan Betts]

I use my Danley rig in rooms smaller than this. The client will specifically ask for this setup because they know the end result will be better than what my SRX can deliver.

[Ray Aberle]

Stop digging the hole deeper.  You know nothing about the standards and competition the OP has to deal with.

Alex, have you read anything... ANYTHING... in this thread? Like, you know, the posts from people who are familiar with or even live/work in the NYC area that the OP is in?

I mean sursly, this would be like you going to the auto mechanic, "Why do you need such fancy tools? Don't all wrenches work the same?"  or  "Hey doc, I know that the one machine you used has a resolution of X, why do you now need to buy one that has 10X resolution? You can heal me just the same, right?"

I'd like to see you take a tech rider from a performer and explain to them that no, you will not bring them a CL5 when the Mackie SR24•4 that you have will do just fine.

[eric lenasbunt]

No,they won't. Unless you've rounded up all the fringe audiophiles. The higher end stuff like Danley are a solution to the problem of getting good sound to thousands of people over large areas. We're talking basically a big living room here. The JBL stuff, properly set up, will sound every bit as good as a decent home theater. There is no subtle musical nuance to club dance music. Loud, clean and balanced response. You guys are starting to sound more off the wall than the concrete blocks on amplifiers and green sharpie on CD's crowd. Good sound isn't that hard.  You don't need Smaart to set up a 40x50' room.

I would want to SMAART an install even in a small venue, why wouldn't you? Small venues don't deserve good tools and practices???

It sounds like you are OK with Ok sound. The OP wants to create a great bar with a great listening and dancing experience and has the money to pay for it, that's a wonderful thing. A business that is worth a damn and will be for a long time has owners who want the best and to be the best, not folks who settle for ok or good enough.

I expect the best out of my company and staff, the best I can afford at least. I can pay less for gear and labor and still get a job done, but not with the level of excellence I desire and expect. Same with the OP's sound system, he can pay less and have a sound system, but he seems to want to do it with excellence, that is to be admired.

[Jonathan Gneezy]

Thanks everybody for the responses.  In the general debate we've got going on here, I'm going to have the take the side of...well...pretty much everybody who's weighed in.  Good sound and great sound are NOT the same. 

I imagine I'm pretty amateur compared to most of you, and I can tell with my eyes closed, without seeing all of the oooh ahhh brand names and big and pretty boxes, the difference between amazing sound, good sound, bad sound, blown out speakers, overdriven speakers...maybe not everyone will instantly think "that speaker is clipping" or "they really should have thought more about the dispersion patterns" but they WILL hear the difference.  Even if only 10% of my customers hear the difference, those are the ones who will really remember it.  Plus it is very true that NYC/Brooklyn has very high standards, and if we can't be the biggest, we might as well be the best.  My 2 cents.

Do you have permits already for the business you are planning to put in there?

Mike - no, not at all...we don't even have a lease signed yet.  Then we have to get construction permits, change the C of O, get a liquor license, a place of assembly license...the list goes on.  Figuring out the sound system at least is one part of the process that's actually enjoyable.

[Ray Aberle]

wot wot wot, a business owner caring about the quality of sound that they install? Blasphemous!

No, just kidding, but you are to be commended, Jonathan. We've all seen and heard venues with sucky (or even just "ok") sound, and a desire to really spend the time and money to do it right is awesome.

You've gotten some great advice from very well respected people on here- if you didn't notice, Ivan works for Danley, so he can help you with anything on that end of the manufacturer spectrum!

-Ray

[Jonathan Gneezy]

At least he has a decent budget and some reasonable expectations.

Most of the time the poster is trying to get a great system with a very small budget and no way to accomplish what they are trying to do.

So, about that budget - let's say I now cap the budget at $30k, and want that to include sound for the downstairs area also (doesn't have to be dancefloor volume sound, but still quality).  Do people think that is still doable?

I do not have my heart set on d&b audiotechnik and Danley, Randy mentioned Martin?  Are there other brands I should be considering? 

[Scott Holtzman]

Sure at that level l' Acoustics, Vue Audiotechnik and RCF just to name a few.

[ProSoundWeb Community]