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Author Topic: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?  (Read 8734 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2014, 11:53:49 pm »

I started looking around a couple years ago but did not see this model. I abandoned the idea that a quality one existed. After looking at this I suspect this came out in 2008 or 2009?

The more I dwell on it the more I am compelled to give this a try. To be able to balance out quality vocal output automatically, as a DJ, is mighty tempting. I may even get this now to work with my not-so-great-mics if I can't decide what models to purchase. At least it could potentially bring these mediocre mics to the fair level.

There is nothing that will do the work for you.  What it WILL do is give you finer control of your mics by gating the un-used mics for a cleaner sound with more over-all headroom.  You still have to ride herd on the program level to compensate for when people turn their heads or get a bit off mic.  There is no "magic box" that will solve your people problems.  But a simple auto-mixer like the 410 can assist you.

How well it will work depends on how you deploy it in your system.  There are several ways to do it, but I'm going to leave it up to you to figure out how best to hook it in for your use.
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Lou Paris (Paris Creative)

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2014, 12:04:52 am »

I'm curious what it is exactly that you think an automatic mixer does. Here's a hint: it has nothing to do with balancing mics.

Mac
Maybe my terminology was too generalized. Auto-gain (within a range), anti-feedback, compression, and gate. As a solo wedding DJ I have only so many hands in the game. Guests tend to speak softly at one second, loudly on another, then they hold the mic away and then closer.

I know no system will be perfect, or fully automatic, but something that evens the odds a bit in my favor to help produce a quality audio output.

Now if you are saying that this unit won't help much at all, then that is fine. I can look at a few different units that gives me great manual control.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 12:09:13 am by Lou Paris (Paris Creative) »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2014, 12:12:57 am »

Maybe my terminology was too generalized. Auto-gain (within a range), anti-feedback, compression, and gate. As a solo wedding DJ I have only so many hands in the game. Guests tend to speak softly at one second, loudly on another, then they hold the mic away and then closer.

That is not what an automatic mixer as it exists today does. It may behave a little bit like a gate which will reduce room tone in the mics, and with multiple mics may help with feedback, but it will do nothing to balance levels. That is what soundmen do.


Mac
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2014, 12:24:41 am »

Maybe my terminology was too generalized. Auto-gain (within a range), anti-feedback, compression, and gate. As a solo wedding DJ I have only so many hands in the game. Guests tend to speak softly at one second, loudly on another, then they hold the mic away and then closer.

I know no system will be perfect, or fully automatic, but something that evens the odds a bit in my favor to help produce a quality audio output.

Now if you are saying that this unit won't help much at all, then that is fine. I can look at a few different units that gives me great manual control.

You're going to need to try this to understand how it helps.  True, it has a gain-sharing algorithm which helps even out the over all program level, but that does not involve regulating the individual mic gains completely.  It does not use compression or have "anti-feedback".  It does have very effective and fairly benign gating, smoothed out by the "last mic open" feature.

What it does is assist you in mixing by reacting instantly to open and close the various mics as people speak...faster than you can follow...and applying gain-sharing to maintain a more constant summed output to return to your board.

Regarding any "feedback suppression", there is none as such.  But by opening only the mic(s) being used, the system headroom is maintained at a higher level of gain before feedback.  You're not "killing" feedback, you're creating a sonic environment where the threshhold of feedback is tilted in your favor.

Spending money on "high end" gear is not the solution.  Study and practice are required.  A good audio tech can do your job with little or no gear and a lot of experience.

There's a lot more besides this, but I'm going to let it go for tonight.  Craig Ferguson is coming on...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 12:34:25 am by dick rees »
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Lou Paris (Paris Creative)

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2014, 12:26:51 am »

That is not what an automatic mixer as it exists today does. It may behave a little bit like a gate which will reduce room tone in the mics, and with multiple mics may help with feedback, but it will do nothing to balance levels. That is what soundmen do.


Mac

Good to know. I guess I will be looking back to some more expected solutions.

What would you recommend for my profession and general needs to live mix mics. Most of the time it's vocals only, but on the rare occasion I might have one or two live instruments (usually acoustic but not exclusive).

Given my setup I almost certainly have to have iPad control. I need to live mix up high with the rest of my equipment at receptions which also in some cases doubles up as a ceremony system if it's in the same room. Otherwise I am usually running on a single speaker with a keyboard stand to prop up my 4U rack back right now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ztvea63k6zls6iv/AAC7SMu229g7auiTX6J5fijta
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2014, 08:35:25 am »

Requiring Ipad control almost makes no sense for a DJ with a small system like yours, especially since 99.9% of the time you'll be behind your system. It would appear that your basing that need on the ability to hide the mixer so as to not take up any space above the lower rack where it might (but I doubt) interfere with your mixing pre recorded music.

If you want Ipad control you've moved to another level of board, a digital board, and probably a board that has more options and features than you'll use in your lifetime. If, as you state, there are gigs you can do with a single speaker, a small 4-8 channel mixer should be able to do the job. You don't need automation, and you don't need a $2-5k digital board. You might find a Behringer rack mount digital unit will fill your needs, but even that will be the equal to killing a fly with a shotgun. Buy some good mics and a small Soundcraft board like the one at the link below and call it a day.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/soundcraft-epm6-6-channel-multi-format-mixer
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Allen Cole

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2014, 08:51:43 am »

Big Ups on the DXR's, I own a pair of DXR10's atm and I'm extremely happy with them.

You seem to be really concerned with this Ipad interface, why not just use something like a Presonus AudioBox with mixing software that has an ipad interface?    You could set your gains, gates and run each channel through a vocal compressor which would allow for more gain on the channels while compressing sudden spikes in voice volume, add a DBX DriveRack with an RTA mic you could do a "decent" job eliminate feedback and room resonances all in two rack spaces.  You could use the same head unit, carry it to the reception hall and plug and play after loading different presets.
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Lou Paris (Paris Creative)

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2014, 10:05:01 am »

Requiring Ipad control almost makes no sense for a DJ with a small system like yours, especially since 99.9% of the time you'll be behind your system. It would appear that your basing that need on the ability to hide the mixer so as to not take up any space above the lower rack where it might (but I doubt) interfere with your mixing pre recorded music.

If you want Ipad control you've moved to another level of board, a digital board, and probably a board that has more options and features than you'll use in your lifetime. If, as you state, there are gigs you can do with a single speaker, a small 4-8 channel mixer should be able to do the job. You don't need automation, and you don't need a $2-5k digital board. You might find a Behringer rack mount digital unit will fill your needs, but even that will be the equal to killing a fly with a shotgun. Buy some good mics and a small Soundcraft board like the one at the link below and call it a day.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/soundcraft-epm6-6-channel-multi-format-mixer

Trust me, i would not mind going to a smaller board. But here is my dilemma. For my primary system (Rane 62, Denon SC3900s, Yamaha DXR8s and DXS12s) (see picture here) my setup is very clean, and it's a selling point to my customers.  So the problem becomes when I need to live mix things like toasts, I need to of course access the mixing console. The problem becomes if I don't have something like an iPad or laptop access control where I can keep it to the level where my current laptop is I will look mighty foolish having to bend over and work the controls.

The only solution in my mind that I can think of that allows me to use a physical board the way I want and in a way I can integrated it into my current setup is a custom case that would fit below my main flight case, that I can mount the board onto a slider tray so I can pull it out when needed, and tuck it in when I don't. I can then mount my receivers, transmitters, and anything else into this custom flight case and use it for ceremonies as well.

Big Ups on the DXR's, I own a pair of DXR10's atm and I'm extremely happy with them.

You seem to be really concerned with this Ipad interface, why not just use something like a Presonus AudioBox with mixing software that has an ipad interface?    You could set your gains, gates and run each channel through a vocal compressor which would allow for more gain on the channels while compressing sudden spikes in voice volume, add a DBX DriveRack with an RTA mic you could do a "decent" job eliminate feedback and room resonances all in two rack spaces.  You could use the same head unit, carry it to the reception hall and plug and play after loading different presets.

Yes I really love the Yamahas. Best price/weight/sound in it's class I think. If I did step up it would probably be the EV ETX line, but I hope to get many years out of these.

So with this thought of having something like a Mics > DBX DriveRack > PreSonus AudioBox, I noticed that the DriveRack has only 2 channels, so I am taking it that each mic channel should have an individual DriveRack channel to work off of, so 2 DriveRack units?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 10:16:20 am by Lou Paris (Paris Creative) »
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2014, 10:30:31 am »

So with this thought of having something like a Mics > DBX DriveRack > PreSonus AudioBox, I noticed that the DriveRack has only 2 channels, so I am taking it that each mic channel should have an individual DriveRack channel to work off of, so 2 DriveRack units?

DriveRack would be used on the //other// side. So Mics > Mixer > DriveRack > Speakers/Amps
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Lou Paris (Paris Creative)

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Re: Considering high end for wedding ceremonies. But is it overkill?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2014, 11:00:09 am »

DriveRack would be used on the //other// side. So Mics > Mixer > DriveRack > Speakers/Amps

Would each channel still need to be handled individually for the DriveRack to operate as expected?
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