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Author Topic: Monitor output snake  (Read 3242 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Monitor output snake
« on: September 21, 2014, 05:04:43 PM »

I want to build a multipin setup so I can run one cable from the amp rack to the stage.  I run 6 monitor outputs.

I see Neutrik makes a OSC8 connector with the right ampacity.

The question comes down to this.  In the QSC GX amplifiers that I am using for this application it appears the  amp output negative is connector to the chassis.

Would there be any issue using a 14 gauge 8 conductor cable and utilizing two conductors for the negative, bonding the grounds together?

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 05:14:13 PM »

I don't know the answer to this for sure, but I would theorize it could be ok BUT, if something came loose ever in that negative connection, you could end up driving two cabinets in series with different amps pushing from each end of the positive cable.  I would think that could spell disaster.


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Brian Adams

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2014, 05:26:20 PM »

For what it's worth, I've seen multi conductor speaker runs using standard 19 pin Socapex. 4 Biamped mixes on one cable (using 16 pins), to a breakout box onstage. You could do 9 passive mixes on such a cable if you were so inclined. Just make sure you don't plug it into a dimmer.  ;)

On the other hand, why isn't your amp rack already on stage, or at least next to it?

As to your original question, I'd stick with 4 mixes on an 8 conductor cable. Just run 2 cables if you need more.

Why use an obscure connector rather than a standard NL8? In addition to the NL8 being somewhat ubiquitous in the sound industry, I think you'll have trouble finding 14/8 cable with a diameter smaller than the 7mm maximum listed for the OSC8.
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Brian Adams
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John Penkala

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2014, 06:14:01 PM »

For what it's worth, I've seen multi conductor speaker runs using standard 19 pin Socapex. 4 Biamped mixes on one cable (using 16 pins), to a breakout box onstage. You could do 9 passive mixes on such a cable if you were so inclined. Just make sure you don't plug it into a dimmer.  ;)

On the other hand, why isn't your amp rack already on stage, or at least next to it?

As to your original question, I'd stick with 4 mixes on an 8 conductor cable. Just run 2 cables if you need more.

Why use an obscure connector rather than a standard NL8? In addition to the NL8 being somewhat ubiquitous in the sound industry, I think you'll have trouble finding 14/8 cable with a diameter smaller than the 7mm maximum listed for the OSC8.

+1
And use these at the stage end:

SBNL18442

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/splitters-boxes/sbnl-series-nl-splitter-breakouts
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2014, 08:33:16 PM »

John, that makes a lot of sense.  Not sure why I didn't think of NL8, they are not something I use so I just didn't a google search and that connector had the specs.

As for why the power amp is not near the stage.  I agonized on this one for while.  For small gigs (micro for you guys) I mix with the iPad and the mixer is next to the stage (X32 producer).   Then I have two 10U road cases for the monitors and mains respectively.  If I bring powered mains I don't bring one of the cases.  This particular rig has decent passive monitors and QSC amps so it is not in line for upgrading.

Anyway, found a real deal on a nice 18U stand up rack with a large enough mixer rack on top to accommodate the producer.  I am going to mount the amps, processor, wireless receivers etc. all in one rack and designate it to go our with powered speakers.  There will even be room for a cable drawer and a mic drawer.  It will be a one cabinet load.

Now that I have stated my entire goal I am sure I will get even better feedback.  I am trying to take my organization and dispatch process to the next level.  I demand that every gig.  Even a PA on a stick for a rally/political event gets a load sheet and a job dispatch form.  If I work through the processes prior to taking on more work hopefully they will scale appropriately.

WRT the load/dispatch/scheduling I am building a database and I will put a web front end on it so we can access from phones or computers.  Anything with a browser.  It is going to email reminders to the staff, populate their calendars in Exchange and send out customer notifications.  If a customer hasn't paid or signed paperwork those items will show up on the job dashboard view as red flag.

A little off topic but to me process and automation are the same task.  Somehow the rack fits into this too!




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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2014, 08:53:28 PM »



The question comes down to this.  In the QSC GX amplifiers that I am using for this application it appears the  amp output negative is connector to the chassis.


I don't know about those specific amplifiers, but MANY modern amps (which are class D) have neg terminals that are NOT common to the other neg terminals.

You DO NOT want to tie these together.

Even with "normal amps" shorting the neg terminals to another amp could cause a good case of ground loops.

It "might" work-but I would not want to try it.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

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Ray Aberle

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2014, 09:00:48 PM »

Not sure how much the WW box is, but a couple of companies around here, including myself, use custom built NL8 to 4-NL4 breakouts; use some NL8 barrels, put couple of Nl8 outputs on a panel in your rack, and one cable to a spot powers up to 4 passive mixes (wedges, subs, etc).

Yeah, that means another type of cabling to buy and maintain... but once you get to large rigs that use multiple NL8 cable looms, having a bit extra is negligible at that point. :)
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 02:15:56 AM »

WRT the load/dispatch/scheduling I am building a database and I will put a web front end on it so we can access from phones or computers.  Anything with a browser.  It is going to email reminders to the staff, populate their calendars in Exchange and send out customer notifications.  If a customer hasn't paid or signed paperwork those items will show up on the job dashboard view as red flag.

A little off topic but to me process and automation are the same task.  Somehow the rack fits into this too!

The IT side of me finds this very interesting. Glad to see you're going web based; IMO these days it's the only way to go. Is this a completely custom built system or are you using a prebuilt package? Be sure and use responsive design on the website so it'll work properly on any device; I hate trying to browse non-mobile optimized sites on my phone.

Anyway good luck with your project; have a great week,

Tommy
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 03:08:49 AM »

Yes, it will be optimized.  PHP and codeigniter.  Using bootstrap for multoplatform. Still using classic mysql.  Some python.  Trying to use REST for all the interfaces.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
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Peter Morris

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Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 05:30:51 AM »

+1
And use these at the stage end:

SBNL18442

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/splitters-boxes/sbnl-series-nl-splitter-breakouts

+1

This is what I use except I have NL8s in and out ... plus 4 x NL4s.   You can also add 2 x NL4s wired for bi-amped monitors.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Monitor output snake
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 05:30:51 AM »


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